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Old 01-28-2010, 02:37 PM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,773,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Hm, because you love and feel compassion for your fellow Americans and human beings?!
Our tax money is supporting them. Shall I go and shine their shoes as well?

 
Old 01-28-2010, 02:43 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
making you get out and work to survive is tough love...

You really dont consider it compassion to teach people to need others in order to eat and survive do you?
You don't get my point Although we might not approve of what some people do, we can't blackmail them saying, either work or perish. They are adults, some adults tend to react in a weird way if others try to tell them what to do without their understanding why.
I believe there is always a reason why people act the way they do. Thus I guess it would be more appropriate to talk to them, find out why they are the way they are, make them realize that they are too young and healthy to live like that, discover what gives them joy etc. Oftentimes people have never really discovered what their talents are, thus they are never happy with any job, naturally.
 
Old 01-28-2010, 02:49 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,096,009 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
You don't get my point Although we might not approve of what some people do, we can't blackmail them saying, either work or perish. They are adults, some adults tend to react in a weird way if others try to tell them what to do without their understanding why.
I believe there is always a reason why people act the way they do. Thus I guess it would be more appropriate to talk to them, find out why they are the way they are, make them realize that they are too young and healthy to live like that, discover what gives them joy etc. Oftentimes people have never really discovered what their talents are, thus they are never happy with any job, naturally.
How am I blackmailing anyone? You either provide a service in exchange for my money, or you dont. I'm not forcing you, I'm not telling you what to do, i'm giving you an option..

Make your choices, and live by the consequcnes.. I'm not responsible for your choices.. Why do you think you are going to blackmailing me into supporting people who make bad choices?
 
Old 01-28-2010, 02:49 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
One might then say, "Go West young Ossi."

The fact of the matter is that Germany, before Unification and like any other Western country, has a group of people who are permanently unemployed as they are probably unemployable.

So taking that into account, what exactly is your point?
My point is that Germany is a bad example to bring up because of its recent history.
Sure, there have always been unemployed Germans, but also unemployed Americans, Japanese etc. There is even a German term for permanently unemployable people, Sockelarbeitslosigkeit. People who don't lack motivation at all, but whom nobody wants or needs for various reasons.
 
Old 01-28-2010, 02:51 PM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,773,460 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
My point is that Germany is a bad example to bring up because of its recent history.
Sure, there have always been unemployed Germans, but also unemployed Americans, Japanese etc. There is even a German term for permanently unemployable people, Sockelarbeitslosigkeit. People who don't lack motivation at all, but whom nobody wants or needs for various reasons.
Then we agree on that.

So what is your point?
 
Old 01-28-2010, 02:58 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
How am I blackmailing anyone? You either provide a service in exchange for my money, or you dont. I'm not forcing you, I'm not telling you what to do, i'm giving you an option..

Make your choices, and live by the consequcnes.. I'm not responsible for your choices.. Why do you think you are going to blackmailing me into supporting people who make bad choices?
One's right to have something to eat should not depend on providing a service in exchange for money. Life is not a market. In my view everyone deserves to have a decent life, whether employed or unemployed.

It is not even about choices necessarily. Motivation or lack thereof is also inherited to a certain extent. Not to mention upbringing etc. So people are not necessarily responsible for their behavior. I guess that is just an illusion so that we can play blame game and justify sanctions.
 
Old 01-28-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: South Fla
9,644 posts, read 9,844,267 times
Reputation: 1942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Come on, life should still be considered more important than money and what you call productivity Why not shoot unproductive people?
This is a bit dramatic.

Why should say James that is working have to work to provide for himself, his family and John. Do you think James is going to start to resent that and then stop working and then John is in deep trouble because now he has no one providing for him nor does he know how to provide for himself
 
Old 01-28-2010, 03:03 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,096,009 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
One's right to have something to eat should not depend on providing a service in exchange for money. Life is not a market. In my view everyone deserves to have a decent life, whether employed or unemployed.

It is not even about choices necessarily. Motivation or lack thereof is also inherited to a certain extent. Not to mention upbringing etc. So people are not necessarily responsible for their behavior. I guess that is just an illusion so that we can play blame game and justify sanctions.
I missed the "right to eat" in the constitution, can you point out what section that is contained in? Where does one obtain this imaginary "right to eat"?
 
Old 01-28-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: South Fla
9,644 posts, read 9,844,267 times
Reputation: 1942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
One's right to have something to eat should not depend on providing a service in exchange for money. Life is not a market. In my view everyone deserves to have a decent life, whether employed or unemployed.

It is not even about choices necessarily. Motivation or lack thereof is also inherited to a certain extent. Not to mention upbringing etc. So people are not necessarily responsible for their behavior. I guess that is just an illusion so that we can play blame game and justify sanctions.
lol Who gets to decide what decent is and whos going to pay for that?

Why work if you dont have to and you can have a decent life? Who is going to work then?
 
Old 01-28-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Sacramento, Ca
2,039 posts, read 3,279,273 times
Reputation: 1661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
One's right to have something to eat should not depend on providing a service in exchange for money. Life is not a market. In my view everyone deserves to have a decent life, whether employed or unemployed.

It is not even about choices necessarily. Motivation or lack thereof is also inherited to a certain extent. Not to mention upbringing etc. So people are not necessarily responsible for their behavior. I guess that is just an illusion so that we can play blame game and justify sanctions.
So, if everyone decided to stop being productive, who will be responsible for providing, since you don't think providing for oneself is a necessary part of life?
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