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Old 02-05-2010, 07:33 PM
 
1,915 posts, read 3,486,709 times
Reputation: 1089

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
There has not been any "capitalism" in the USA since 1935.

What you are objecting to are the abuses of usurers and limited liability corporations - which are NOT capitalism, btw.
How so?

Quote:
(Adam Smith was a shill for usurers. In his book, "The Wealth of Nations", he basically apologized for the shearing done by usurers.)

A farmer who absolutely owns his land is enjoying capitalism.
A worker who absolutely owns the fruits of his labor is enjoying capitalism.
A factory owner who absolutely owns his factory is enjoying capitalism.

Capitalism only means the PRIVATE ownership of the tools of production - land, labor, tools, etc.
So a farmer needs to own the material needed to make his tools, as well as the machines (let a lone the material needed to make the machines fabricate the tools) to work the land he also owns? Should the farmer also be a cow in order to be a dairy farmer? Because if the dairy farmer is not producing the tool from which he gains his wealth, in order to fit your strange version of capitalism, he should be a cow too.


Quote:
On the other hand, predators like usurers, call themselves "capitalists" to hide their vile trade.

(For over 3500 years, usurers have been denounced. Every religion denounces and condemns usurers. Ezekiel 18:13 KJV states that they're under a death sentence! Of course, usurers are not nice people...)
Loan sharks? Maybe. Banks are in the business to make money. Don't borrow money if you don't want to pay the interest. It's that easy.
Not that hard of a concept to understand and HARDLY what was going on back in the biblical days.

Quote:
Today?
Fail to pay your socialist dues, and watch how fast the Collective State takes your property, without just compensation.
That's right - no enumerated socialist owns private property.
Have a glass of wine. Relax.
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:37 PM
 
18,132 posts, read 25,286,567 times
Reputation: 16835
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans
No wonder democrats don't have a problem with bank take overs, health care take overs, auto take overs, government expansion at the expense of the private sector, pay czars,etc,etc,etc.
Is your bank socialist?
backed by Federal Depository Insurance Corporation (FDIC)



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Old 02-05-2010, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
4,027 posts, read 7,289,753 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
It may come as a surprise to most Americans, but the U.S.A. has been socialist since 1935.
America is not Socialist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdne View Post
This quote is attributed to Margaret Thatcher, Prime Minister of England,...a somewhat socialist country in its own right:
"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
I think that pretty well sums up the situation.
And England is doing much more than fine.

Margaret Thatcher is supposed to be highly educated and smart, but that quote shows how little she understands Socialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
.Socialism (and communism), as defined, abolish private property ownership.
Only Communism completely does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagran View Post
The government bailing out failed capitalists isn't socialism. We'll talk when the government takes over thriving businesses. That's socialism.
Thriving businesses like the ones that received billions of bailout money? Hmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzie679 View Post
Communism
Yes, Republicans enjoy referring to "Socialism" (which isn't that at all) and call it Communism.

If you think that this is Communism, go to Soviet Russia in the 1970s.
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:27 PM
 
20,459 posts, read 12,381,706 times
Reputation: 10253
Dems like socialism! LOL! BRILLIANT DEDUCTION!

I also hear most fish like water.
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,698,072 times
Reputation: 9980
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR View Post
America is not Socialist.



And England is doing much more than fine.

Margaret Thatcher is supposed to be highly educated and smart, but that quote shows how little she understands Socialism.



Only Communism completely does.



Thriving businesses like the ones that received billions of bailout money? Hmm...



Yes, Republicans enjoy referring to "Socialism" (which isn't that at all) and call it Communism.

If you think that this is Communism, go to Soviet Russia in the 1970s.
But which is Socialism

Providing Health Care for all or

Providing Health Care to the Employees of the Richest Americans while they reap the profits, like the Waltons
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
4,027 posts, read 7,289,753 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
But which is Socialism

Providing Health Care for all or

Providing Health Care to the Employees of the Richest Americans while they reap the profits, like the Waltons
What does this have to do with my post?
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,261,360 times
Reputation: 4937
Some will refer to socialism as the Government taking care of the people "cradle to the grave"

Others choose freedom as the least amount of Government involvement in their lives possible - for instance - I don't want government taking care of me "cradle to the grave". I don't need social security (dropped it - and have not paid into it), I don't need NHI and so on

The fact is - government can, and should, be shrinked in size - get rid of HUD, HEW, FDA etc. Keep the agencies that are involved with constitutionally mandated issues like national defense - the military.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:42 AM
 
7,530 posts, read 11,365,273 times
Reputation: 3654
The problems with socialism is that we can't afford it now and the over regulations that tend to come with socialism do more harm than good.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:55 AM
 
6,734 posts, read 9,341,612 times
Reputation: 1857
Some industries in the private sector will need government assistance to compete with countries that already partner with private industry. This would be a tiny percent of GDP.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:11 AM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,676,657 times
Reputation: 17362
Well, from reading the posts I see the same tired old arguments that are supposed to enlighten us all to each others point of view being passed back and forth, it's like watching tennis. The simple truth is and will always be that no "system" is set up to enhance the economic oppertunities of the masses.

I've been reading these posts that claim some kind of religosity connected to the constitutional protection of private property, these were simply the laws put in place to insure the protection of the upper class that had all the private property at the time those laws were set in place. Our entire constitution is a setup to protect the capital class, they were known as the "planter class" in their day. Our public school history has held up these men to be some kind of saints, they were the equivalent of GM or US steel, they were the first corporates to sieze power in the new nation of the United States.

Read the federalist papers and see what kind of thinking prompted James Madison to figure out how he and his buds were going to get around the fact of a growing class of have nots in their midst, these folks fought the Brits and then were promptly disenfranchised by the likes of Madison and others, read the federalist paper # 10, see what the "founding fathers" were really worried about.

Again, there is no system available in a nice package that adresses the real needs of the masses, we are supposed to be in charge of our political destiny and therefore create our own distinctive economy, one that serves us the people, but even that idea has been eroded by all the partisan politics that serves the upper classes by giving the low men something to chew on.............Keep chewin, while Wall Street laughs at our fighting over a dead horse.
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