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Old 02-07-2010, 06:48 AM
 
4,344 posts, read 3,932,038 times
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people get greedy, and lazy, and don't want to pay for their own mistakes.

so no.
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:35 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,799,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Since most young people today consider the ethnophobic, homophobic, and socially unaware mentality of today's conservatives "uncool" will that political philosophy be tossed onto the ash heap of American history?
Ideas change and come back all the time. For example the Romans and Ancient Greeks would have found homophobia confusing since they didn't really have any concept of gay per se, they also would find us soft because we generally don't kill our sickly infants.

Racism has gone and come back during several times in history. The very first settlers in much of America weren't all that racist. The first slaves were brought over as indentured labor and included both lower class white Brits and imported Africans. They intermingled and often intermarried. It was for a few more decades until the idea of a permanent slave caste based almost solely on race became fashionable again.

Privacy is another example. The amount of government intrusion into privacy in the Anglosphere (especially the United Kingdom) would have only found support in the modern ages during a total war up until about a decade ago. There are people out there who are now claiming that "privacy is the enemy of freedom". How outdated of an idea is that?

Think of the right to bear arms. This was traditionally a radical view. Since governments always realized that people who are able to fight back tend to be a bit harder to oppress; tyrannies have traditionally moved to restrict the access to weaponry to the government's supporters, the military, and the police. Some Chinese Emperors even went so fair as to outlaw various martial arts. That is the reason why it was added to the American Constitution. It is basically saying that you are allowed to acquire the means to defend yourself from government should it ever become tyrannical in the future and saying that it has no intention of becoming tyrannical because you are allowed to have the means to defend yourself. Now, it is generally conservatives who support the right to bear arms and generally liberals who oppose it. You could argue that in this case, liberals are actually going a few hundred years back into the past in their belief that only the select few should have the authority to possess these lethal tools.

Speaking of homophobia. During the Islamic Golden Age there were a number of stories and poems that often included homoerotic and homosexual themes. Including one poem where Satan kills a man's lover, so he threatens Satan that he will become the most pious man to ever walk the earth and Satan relents and brings the man's lover back to life. The main character's lover is a young man. Now, try writing a poem like that in most of the Muslim world today. Try writing a poem like that in the 1950s in the US.

I've seen a few articles in medical journals (which I occasionally read because I have an interest in science) that have argued that Prohibition was not a miserable failure, but a resounding success and that it should be tried again on public health grounds. The present day anti-smoking movement is using arguments that are over 70 years old and the very first smoking bans were enacted several hundred years ago. There was a time when there was no stigma towards marijuana, then it became illegal, then there was talk in the late 60s of legalizing it, then it became even more illegal, and now there is talk of decriminalizing it.

There are few new ideas and plenty of old ones. They go and come back constantly. The only thing that truly annoys me is that conservatives seem to think they are following some unbroken tradition (which is rarely the case) and that liberals seem to think that history is supports a clear evolution in thought and attitude (it doesn't).

At least those are my rambling thoughts on the matter.

PS: I would also like to add that " liberal" and " conservative" are both relative terms and both relate to current political positions. If things go far enough towards social liberalism, today's social liberals might be considered extremely conservative in the future. Also, many liberals tend to forget that the development of two more or less consistent opposing ideologies in the US is a relatively recent event. During the turn of last century to about the start of World War II, it was not uncommon to see political mixes that would be considered almost incompatible today. It was not uncommon for someone to be a Christian Eugenicist Feminist KKK support (I can name at least one woman who was) or Neocolonialist Freethinker Prohibitionist.
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:40 AM
 
29,679 posts, read 18,061,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Since most young people today consider the ethnophobic, homophobic, and socially unaware mentality of today's conservatives "uncool" will that political philosophy be tossed onto the ash heap of American history?

What a laugh!

Let's see............................. will liberalism die out? Since most people consider the unchecked federal spending, funding of dead beats, submission to foriegn interests, job killing policies, and lack of energy exploration to be self destructive and cultural suicide, will that political philosophy be tossed into the ash heap of American history?


Liberalism will die, as it is contrary to national and self preservation. It is a suicidal cult of the uneducated and provincial idealists who live in a fantasy land. Unfortunately, we live in the real world and need to eat, use energy, work, and provide shelter for our families.
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Wiesbaden, Germany
13,815 posts, read 28,960,829 times
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We just need to raise the voting age to around 30 or so. The youngsters need a few good doses of reality in them before making such a huge decision. I'd venture to guess most 18-25 YO's vote based on what they heard in school or read off the Internet. If that doesn't scare the fudge out of you, I don't know what does.
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Northeast Ohio
571 posts, read 929,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rd2007 View Post
We just need to raise the voting age to around 30 or so. The youngsters need a few good doses of reality in them before making such a huge decision. I'd venture to guess most 18-25 YO's vote based on what they heard in school or read off the Internet. If that doesn't scare the fudge out of you, I don't know what does.
If I'm old enough to be shipped off and die for old mens' wars over oil, I am old enough to vote those old men out of office! What a ridiculous suggestion! Or am I supposed to just bend over and take what everyone tells me because I am "too young"? I think not. I live in America.

Of course younger generations are more liberal. As they replace other generations they are seen as conservative. Kids in the 60's who held hands with blacks outside resteraunts were seen as pretty liberal, but today they're conservatives.

Our society NEEDS young liberals AND old conservatives to function properly. If we had only older people voting we'd run ourselves into a neo-corporatist theocracy, and if we had only younger people voting we'd be a bankrupt welfare state. Why doesn't anyone have any concept of balance anymore these days?

Maturity isn't marked by a hard swing to either side; it's marked by realizing both sides have valid points.
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,364 posts, read 10,950,957 times
Reputation: 8820
[quote=UntamedOhioan;12794012]
Quote:
If I'm old enough to be shipped off and die for old mens' wars over oil, I am old enough to vote those old men out of office! What a ridiculous suggestion! Or am I supposed to just bend over and take what everyone tells me because I am "too young"? I think not. I live in America.
FYI, we currently have an all volunteer armed forces.
But I agree with your point about age and vote.
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 15,974,665 times
Reputation: 6954
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
will liberalism die out?
Very possible. Not die out completely, but liberals in America may be a very small minority. From tradition America is a very conservative country. Don't expect that to change.
This also dissolves the myth that Americans "celebrate differences". That is just a big crock, because Americans are basically conformists. The American ideal is that all Americans should think and behave alike.
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:04 AM
 
Location: SARASOTA, FLORIDA
11,486 posts, read 15,069,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UntamedOhioan View Post
If I'm old enough to be shipped off and die for old mens' wars over oil.

What oil?

We have not taken a drop of oil.

Are you one of those who still believe we went for the oil?

You said the men, well, Hillary voted to send our troops to war also.
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
22,744 posts, read 23,127,621 times
Reputation: 14115
Quote:
Originally Posted by UntamedOhioan View Post
Social conservatism? It's on its way out and good riddance. It's totally irrefutably bad and harmful, from the opposition to black civil rights in the 60's, to opposition to women's suffrage, to book burnings, to oppression of science, to gay marriage bans today.
FYI, Wyoming, which is arguably one of the most conservative states in the union, was the first to give women the right to vote.

Not every stereotype fits...
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:57 AM
 
56,215 posts, read 25,235,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominus View Post
Hopefully. Conservatism has no place in a progressive and intellectual society.
You mean in a socialist and elitist society don't you?
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