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Criticism is one thing but what we have in modern days in blatant stereotyping, this is the mindset of whites whenever a black pushes out the racism chant. Yes, your criticizing based on the fact that you think I should wear my pants at my waist, yes you're tell me school is important and I should stop trying to be a rapper and do good in life but you're judging me from the perception you see of me and that's were you fail.
A white guy can have a negative image and still get into a company faster than a black person...especially a man... which it seems America is separating brothas from sistas with all these bullcrap t.v shows showing hard working women and broke men who want to roll a blunt and hang with the fellas at 40 years old.
But you don't see that, based of perception you immediately put black men in a different box based on what you see and hear and when black unemployment is doubled that of whites you say they need to work harder but you don't see the elephant in the room, just constant perception.
I worked with white guys that had a preference for men, had constant drug and alcohol problems and honestly they get a pass since they cover their personal life from their work settings... a black man isn't that lucky, we're looked upon negatively from the start and you don't see that criticism, instead we're weak since we come up with the racism chant all the time.
I will be here when African American unemployment reaches 30% and whites are at 5%, I wonder what you will say.
With the majority of American jobs being unskilled labor, what's really the excuse? A black guy isn't smart enough to tell you how to turn on your ipod? Don't see many black waiters.... is that facial hair a bit too rough? What is it?
1st bolded post- I'm not the one failing. I'm not the one announcing blacks are failing. I'm the one telling y'all that much of the 'failure' you perceive is of your own making. When you speak, act, or dress in a way that suggests you do not have any self respect people will not be generous regardless of any category you'd self label.
Not one of us alive today in america created this machine. We merely deal with reality of our world, or we duck out from reality. I could have made more money in my lifetime as a stripper/ model than in military or with college degree, and that's a material fact of our culture that I find morally repugnant. I find it equally disgusting when drug cultures and football/basketball icons are what impoverished black communities would aspire for in their children. Do you really want to stand there and believe Appalachian folk jump for joy sending their children into a coal field?
Ducking out- whether by drugs, facilitating demise of social order, railing at the machine never investing in the energy to build a new machine, resigning ourselves to 'that's just the way it is', or putting upon the sins of the world on a single scapegoat in media. Oligarchs were not generous to share that fortune with 'privileged whites' and they enslaved them in millions of ways throughout history. The only difference being modus operandi. Stop divorcing yourselves from humanity and recognize we've all had our turn beating off oppression. Oppression is wrong, not the races, and not even the monied elite. It's what they do that makes them malevolent or beneficent. I've met both in my travels.
2nd bolded post- Any company that would have the policy of hiring based on favoritism or nepotism or whatever isms you want to name is doomed to fail. You don't want that job, trust me, they'll only throw you under the bus or stiff you in the end. See Enron employees shuffling out the door with their cardboard boxes full of personal effects. Anyone telling me to vote for Obama because he was black could talk to the wall. I wanted the best candidate for the job and that's who I voted for- Obama.
3rd bolded post- Get off your tail and start a small business. Do all your homework before you attempt this endeavor. Capitalism consistently rewards those selling umbrellas when it rains. Capitalism consistently punishes those selling suntan lotion in the rain. There is no security, even with education, for any American without a pension. Even if you had a pension, it's threatened to be revoked in courts daily. Wake up!
White people aren't allowed to say or do anything to black people that they would say or do to anyone else because it's "racist". Overall, black people are extremely sensitive and defensive about being black, when in reality nobody cares, people only respond to how you act and their own personal experiences.
You could not say something like that to ANY race or ethnicity of people and have it be accepted as "OK".
The fact that you (and others like you) believe that you have the right to dictate the way Black people "should be" and what we "should or should not have" is the problem.
This is essentially what you and others like you are saying: "If only the Blacks would act like "we" act, think as "we" think, not demand to be treated equally, stay in "their" own areas (except to serve us by cleaning our houses and shining our shoes), and of course be content to have less than "we" have ; then "we" wouldn't have any problems with their existence.
You could not say something like that to ANY race or ethnicity of people and have it be accepted as "OK".
The fact that you (and others like you) believe that you have the right to dictate the way Black people "should be" and what we "should or should not have" is the problem.
This is essentially what you and others like you are saying: "If only the Blacks would act like "we" act, think as "we" think, not demand to be treated equally, stay in "their" own areas (except to serve us by cleaning our houses and shining our shoes), and of course be content to have less than "we" have ; then "we" wouldn't have any problems with their existence.
Please quote where I made a suggestion on how black people "should be". All I've been saying is that it's your attitude that matters, not race.
I would treat these people no differently from one another:
They are both equally scary. You fail to see what me and other people have been trying to say this entire time.
Yes, a person's attitude matters but that does not always mean that a person will be treated fairly simply based on their attitude.
You (and other's like you) seem to be confusing the discussion by saying that White privilege does not exist which is simply false.
I am not stating that White privilege comes into play in each and every situation. Iam not stating that every White person recognizes that they are benefiting from White privilege when it is occuring (it would be impossible for them to realize it each and every time). I am not saying that Black people experience discrimination at each and every turn. But it is very naive to deny that both exist.
90% of your remarks are based on nothing but stereotypes and is an example of what people mean when they talk about white privilege. You assume that the only black people who have problems finding employment are ones who don't behave in a socially appropriate manner and that is absolutely UNTRUE. There are studies which show time and time again, that blacks are routinely discriminated against for no other reason than race. I believe that someone else previously mentioned that there was a study which showed black men with a college degree and no criminal history were less likely to receive a job offer than a white man w/o a degree and with a criminal record. Now, how can one possibly explain that?
Additionally, the "black community" doesn't want our kids to aspire to selling drugs and to assume so is absolutely ridiculous. Black parents aren't putting baseballs, basketballs, etc. into their childrens hands anymore than white parents. However, I will say this - there are numerous black people who've had tremendous success in athletics and the entertainment industry and there is not shame is making money doing something you love. But to assume that most black people are aspiring to this is crazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
1st bolded post- I'm not the one failing. I'm not the one announcing blacks are failing. I'm the one telling y'all that much of the 'failure' you perceive is of your own making. When you speak, act, or dress in a way that suggests you do not have any self respect people will not be generous regardless of any category you'd self label.
Not one of us alive today in america created this machine. We merely deal with reality of our world, or we duck out from reality. I could have made more money in my lifetime as a stripper/ model than in military or with college degree, and that's a material fact of our culture that I find morally repugnant. I find it equally disgusting when drug cultures and football/basketball icons are what impoverished black communities would aspire for in their children. Do you really want to stand there and believe Appalachian folk jump for joy sending their children into a coal field?
Ducking out- whether by drugs, facilitating demise of social order, railing at the machine never investing in the energy to build a new machine, resigning ourselves to 'that's just the way it is', or putting upon the sins of the world on a single scapegoat in media. Oligarchs were not generous to share that fortune with 'privileged whites' and they enslaved them in millions of ways throughout history. The only difference being modus operandi. Stop divorcing yourselves from humanity and recognize we've all had our turn beating off oppression. Oppression is wrong, not the races, and not even the monied elite. It's what they do that makes them malevolent or beneficent. I've met both in my travels.
I have 20+ years of experience working in corporate America. I've worked for very well-known, respected, profitable companies, who also have a global presence. And in every instance, there have been numerous example of favortism, nepotism, cronyism, etc. That is how corporate American works - if someone likes you and they are in a position of influence, they can get you a spot at the table, which in effect eliminates an opportunity for someone else.
~ButterBrownBiscuit~
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
2nd bolded post- Any company that would have the policy of hiring based on favoritism or nepotism or whatever isms you want to name is doomed to fail. You don't want that job, trust me, they'll only throw you under the bus or stiff you in the end. See Enron employees shuffling out the door with their cardboard boxes full of personal effects. Anyone telling me to vote for Obama because he was black could talk to the wall. I wanted the best candidate for the job and that's who I voted for- Obama.
It goes even beyond the US: Whites get treated better in a whole lot of countries in Africa, Asia, and Latin America simply because they act respectfully.
There, I fixed that. And when the world is disgusted with the behavior of illegal immigrants or islamic fundies, they tell them to get lost. As they should.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonlitwishes
As for the article it seems as if they will be punished. On the "white privilege" and racisms and what not IMHO this is a case of "walk a mile in their shoes" white people likely don't notice the things that are happening around them as long as it is not happening to them or a group of their
friends/family, same with the black community. If roles were reversed and I were black, hispanic, asian or whatever for a day I may notice some difference in the treatment I recieve, my point is you don't know what someone else is going through until you have experienced it yourself
And nobody bothered asking anyone what they were responding to in the first place, now did they? Far too convenient to say blacks get evicted from bootcamp because of racist policies like expecting every sailor be able to swim if they join the navy. How is fostering that attitude helping minorities? It only cripples them more.
Sorry harborlady. I wish it wasn't so, but whites in Asia generally do get treated better just because they're white.
It's not like I'm making this up. In an ideal world nobody would get treated better or worse just because of their skin color. But our world is full of imperfections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutre
That's just the way it is. Don't even matter if I think it's good or bad. It is just a fact.
It goes even beyond the US: Whites get treated better in a whole lot of countries in Africa, Asia, and Latin America simply because they're white.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutre
Oh sister, I grew up in Asia.
Fair skin and caucasian features in general are highly prized. The whiter, the better. And the people there say these things openly, although in the US it would be politically incorrect.
When you're white, you get treated better because people assume you're rich.
There's other examples, but I don't see the need to go in detail.
Again. I won't say it's good or bad. That's just the way it is.
Why it's almost like saying "Good-looking people get treated better". In Asia, white features = good looks. Hence "the whiter the better".
I know it's politically incorrect to say that in the US, but I'm just giving an acoount of how it is in Asia.
No one's making excuses. Posters in this thread are pointing out reality and you seem quite perturbed that we have the gall to do so. .
What precise post surmises what I'm perturbed about? The consistent message I've put out there is people hurt their own damned selves carrying a professional victim mentality around like martyrs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy
Your above quoted statement says so much more about you than you actually even realize.
Nope, it's about people presuming a meaning that was never there, namely projecting your own feelings of inferiority onto everything around you. I had no reason to believe you were inferior until you give me evidence, and you materially have throughout your posting career. Anyone who fails to vote Obama is racist? That makes you a racist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit
Isn't it sad that her comments are typical of the attitude that we are referring to, yet she's too blind to see it?
~ButterBrownBiscuit~
Isn't it sad you have no idea of the successful blacks I've known. I have far too much respect for their accomplishments than to cheapen it with dignifying your attitude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit
You assume that the only black people who have problems finding employment are ones who don't behave in a socially appropriate manner and that is absolutely UNTRUE.
Funny you ignored the poster I was responding to claiming blacks were exclusively discriminated against. He was claiming victim, not I. Socially inappropriate behavior does get punished regularly, and that would happen no matter what race/ creed/ gender. Didn't much care for the italian stallions grandstanding on company time either, and they'd rarely make it past interview. It's not about Italian, it's about being a team player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit
blacks are routinely discriminated against for no other reason than race. I believe that someone else previously mentioned that there was a study which showed black men with a college degree and no criminal history were less likely to receive a job offer than a white man w/o a degree and with a criminal record. Now, how can one possibly explain that?
How can you explain that women far more qualified than even that black man without criminal record doesn't have a prayer? She told them to kiss her rear end and started her own business. So have like minded blacks sick of dancing to someone else's tune.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit
Additionally, the "black community" doesn't want our kids to aspire to selling drugs and to assume so is absolutely ridiculous. Black parents aren't putting baseballs, basketballs, etc. into their childrens hands anymore than white parents. However, I will say this - there are numerous black people who've had tremendous success in athletics and the entertainment industry and there is not shame is making money doing something you love. But to assume that most black people are aspiring to this is crazy.
Low income, hopeless poverty set-- What they aspire for is the only path to success they see as viable. I grew up poor and saw the same thing in my poor mixed race neighborhood-- many aspired for college scholarships. Some of my female counterparts were raised to aspire for nothing more than a wedding ring of lifelong dependence, and a scholarship was nothing more than a means to an end to find that rich husband. Black boys getting B-ball scholarships blowing off academics in a gamble for big league-- GET that education!!!
Just calling a spade a spade here- I'm not making this up. The forced reality of their lives is what they responded to, and when the illusion of limitations gets kicked off, opportunity does wait for those possessing the right skills at the right time in the right place. Colin Powell has the utmost respect of military troops, most of whom are every other color than black. I wonder why YOU are color blind to that fact! When I despise the very ground Condoleeza Rice walks upon it has nothing to do with her being black, but what a sell out of her country she truly was sucking up to neocons for cheap applause and a tablespoon of power. I judged her on the content of her vacuous character.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit
I have 20+ years of experience working in corporate America. I've worked for very well-known, respected, profitable companies, who also have a global presence. And in every instance, there have been numerous example of favortism, nepotism, cronyism, etc. That is how corporate American works - if someone likes you and they are in a position of influence, they can get you a spot at the table, which in effect eliminates an opportunity for someone else.
I have similar experience with fortune 500 but saw the big picture for what it was because I didn't have a vested interest in disparaging males. I watched respected, knowledgeable staff abused over ethics. I saw true leaders crushed under the heels of profiteers who could care less about company health. Profit today meant throw all employees under the bus, loyalty is a one way street. That meant no future for white guys, or white ladies, or any minority, because creeps rule. They rule long enough to bankrupt the corporation. I scraped them off my own shoe.
So do go on about my <alleged> privilege when Tijuana offers me buy one margarita get 5 free for being a white blonde americano chicka-- they're meaning to use me for nefarious purposes, and it's best I refrain from participating in delusions or find myself kidnapped in human trafficking ring. That's a sick and sad reality of the world that any upstanding citizen should be against (except when it doesn't directly affect your affinity group?? )
Own your citizenship once and for all. That means defending whats right even when you don't like who you're defending. That means black surgeons do the right thing even if their patients are green, and they're EXPECTED to do the right thing not because they're black, but because they are surgeons who took an oath in medicine.
Take a look at those pictures RV posted-- black militants and white militants. Neither one of them are worthy of the nation they prey upon, each claiming themselves 'victim' of the other. Why feed this sickness blaming innocent people for what these groups do? You're being racist every time you do it, and will never be able to prove that white privilege exists because it materially doesn't for the masses.
The citations of loan denials would be in direct violation of fair housing laws, and when the criteria for loan approval are not met, these cases are without merit. I told the bank to take a flying leap and bought my house outright because the terms they offered were legalized theft ( I had an ace credit rating and zero debt). How about black community vote with their feet on that issue the same way this lil old white lady did? I grew up poor and wasn't willing to stay that way. The rules of the game changed, and I survived because I changed without parting with my ethics the way they did. I'm still standing, and I'm not willing to wait around for some corporation to throw me a bone when they've had a throw me under the bus policy all along.
There it is... this is what I was saying all along.
Thank you for proving me right from the start.
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When I despise the very ground Condoleeza Rice walks upon it has nothing to do with her being black, but what a sell out of her country she truly was sucking up to neocons for cheap applause and a tablespoon of power. I judged her on the content of her vacuous character.
