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You know, I would love to debate the OP and healthcare further, but you keep insulting me. I haven't called you any names and I have respected your opinion, and I derserve better than what you are willing to give.
Are you a bigot? You have demonstrated the very definition of one with me. So we have differing opinions. Can you not handle that? You have to dissolve any good discussion into "My view is better than your view and you're stupid" drivel.
One thing I will correct you on because you've called me this more than once. I am not a republican. I don't hold anyone's line. I never have. I think you might think about therapy to get rid of your hatred for others.
So disagreement equates with hatred for you? Then YOU need help....
And, yes, you are a Republican when it comes to understanding health care reform..you don't understand=Republican.
You have not debated any of my points pertaining to health care...just whined because I hurt you're feelings...grow up.
Not this crap again! Are you donating to this cause, or just suggesting that everyone else do so? It could be you some day whose insurance won't provide for something that could save your life.
I think an endless round of fund-raisers for those who don't have insurance is a bad idea. I would rather pay a tax than spend my so-called "free" time baking cookies, washing cars, going door to door selling overpriced useless crap.
Here's another generous soul.
The first response to suggesting that people here actually help this child was a lovely 'blah, blah, blah' smiley and now the touching and ever so appropriate...
"Not this crap again!"
Take a bow for your considerable lack of empathy for this child who will die while you piddle your britches waiting for 'reform' instead of doing something tangible right now.
For the record...I've never advocated bake sales or car washes, I don't see the need to spend the time or dilute the donation....I suggest you send him a check...the sooner the better as he doesn't have much time.
Please be sure to check out whatever charitable causes you donate to, to make sure they are legit.
Also note that I've not advocated such donation drives as the long term solution for the health care problems we have in this country. I've stated MANY TIMES, even in this thread, that reforms are needed. However, OP is 'using' the story of this child to tout the need for such reforms and I think it's cruel to let this kid die for the cause. Don't you? Send him a check if you think it's worth it. Also, keep working for real reform from Washington. You don't have to sit on your hands waiting for someone else to save this child when We The People have the power to make a difference now and for the long term.
I also think it's very likely that under any kind of health care reform there will be similar stories...people who can't get treatments for some reason. Not everything will be approved even under UHC. I strongly suggest that some of you who are now 'blah, blah, blahing' against individual efforts plug back into your communities..there are needs you can fill....or you just be the on-line champion for 'the cause' while mocking people who are trying to make a difference.
Here's the link for the family donation site again.
http://savekylervannocker.ning.com/ (broken link)
Not always. In the UK they have socialized medicine in which the doctor's work for the government. In some cases they are salaried. Many are paid per patient (not necessarily for procedure) and get paid bonuses for keeping patients healthy. Imagine that!
Here in the U.S. there is only one hospital I can think of where the doctors are salaried.
I don't see why insurance companies haven't thought of hiring their own doctors and keeping them on a salary. If you know a bunch of your policyholders go to a certain doc, why not put him on a retainer?
<3 the mindless capitalism statement.
Because doctors (except a few primary care ones) aren't interested in being salaried. I'm not interested in being anyone's employee, let alone the government's.
You socialism-pushers never factor in the fact that when you take away incentive to work, no one works.
This insurance company is being painted as some sort of black-hearted entity,...but it DID pay for an experimental procedure prior to the relapse. Under the contract the company could have denied the initial procedure thereby making any other requests for experimental procedures moot.
I've asked the question regarding the good faith payment for the first experimental procedure, and why there is so much animosity toward the company when it went beyond its contractual obligation in the first place. All I read is reference to some CEO making big bucks, and all the emotionalism surrounding the fact that this is a five year old.
It would seem that if this were a 65 year old man, there wouldn't be nearly the outcry, the emotionalism, or the constant rantings about "universal health care would not allow this". Seems there is a legitimate question regarding whether the healthcare plan as proposed would pay for experimental procedures of this magnitude.
I agree. Decisions of medical care, quality of life etc. all culminate in these things.
This falls firmly under the fact that people don't want to pay higher premiums but they want medical care that is limitless.
I personally had to pay out of pocket for a $700 abulance ride (transport to hospice) becuase non-emergency ambulance wasn't covered by my insurance. This was clearly a cost containment effort as people would abuse the practice. In my case, it was really the only feasible alternative.
Do I want my insurer to start covering this? No. I don't want someone using it as a "free taxi" and having me pick up part of the bill.
Unfortunately some diseases are not curable no matter how much money is spent. The democrats really have not stopped death, they have not brought about everlasting life no matter how much they promise they have.
So disagreement equates with hatred for you? Then YOU need help....
And, yes, you are a Republican when it comes to understanding health care reform..you don't understand=Republican.
You have not debated any of my points pertaining to health care...just whined because I hurt you're feelings...grow up.
Speaking as one of the people out there that don't identify themselves as "rep" or "dem" I find your attitude frightening.
You've bought so far into your party identity that it's all clear cut good vs. evil and that you will fall into lockstep with any initiative presented by your party masters.
Heck, you won't even acknowledge that what they've proposed and STILL WON'T PASS isn't that expansive and certainly isn't going to help in a situation like this.
These are the same folks that voted for starting the war, complained bitterly about "Bush's war" and Guantanamo and things like the Patriot act....and have changed NOTHING. I voted for Obama too before you start with the name calling...but I did vote for a republican senator...and a democratic governor....gasp!
Unfortunately some diseases are not curable no matter how much money is spent. The democrats really have not stopped death, they have not brought about everlasting life no matter how much they promise they have.
This is exactly the point!
If the 5year old received this treatment, was it guaranteed to save his life and cure his cancer?
Heck, was it even guaranteed to help make his remaining life less painful?
It's possible it would not have. Many experimental treatments are not feasible to the patient as the risk involved outweighs the benefits and could actually cause an expedited death or complications.
If the 5year old received this treatment, was it guaranteed to save his life and cure his cancer?
Heck, was it even guaranteed to help make his remaining life less painful?
It's possible it would not have. Many experimental treatments are not feasible to the patient as the risk involved outweighs the benefits and could actually cause an expedited death or complications.
I'll use your comments to help fill in some of the misinformation in this thread.
1) There is no cure for Neuroblastoma. 5 year survival rates are ~30%.
2) Actually, the effectiveness of I-MIBG is ~30% that it will help to put this cancer into remission and in almost all cases allows the remaining time left, far less painful. For those in end stage NB, they do not get to die a quiet death. It's a very slow, painful, and horrid death. In this case it has been effective.
3) Almsot 100% of all childrens cancer treatements are, by insurance company definition, experimental. Sorry, those tossing about their knowledge as to what Non-FDA approved means, are incorrect. Any drug/treatment being tested (new or off label) are non-FDA approved, for that purpose. The FDA does have to approve the testing, is involved with the monitoring, etc. In the case of I-MIBG it has been in use at CHOP since 1988. It is the standard of case (listed) throughout Europe. It is considered the Standard of care in the US by those who treat these children.
Even the Insurance companies doctor (If you had bother to look up the complaint as filed in Federal Court, I did) agreed that this was the correct and appropriate treatment for this child.
But because Insurance companies are able to redefine "nessicary treatment", "Experimental", etc in their contracts, their definitions have completelty different meanings than those of the medical community. Imagine being able to redefine what the meaning of "the sky is blue" in a contract thqt you are signing, but still allowed to use that phrase under the plain language handbooks, without definition. This is why most think they are covered for something, when in fact unless you have the full contract, and review it with your lawyer, you haven't a clue.
4) Only 4% of all monies spent on Cancer research is spent on ALL childrens cancer research. As such, and because R & D moves so quickly, the current 'standard of care" as designated by the NCI is almost always considered experimental by your insurance company.
In this case, thats the difference between 7% survival and 35% survival.
Which set of odds would yuo prefer to see a love one face?
5) Lastly, in this case the insurance company (agian from the publicly filed complaint) applied a set of guidlines (internal and not available to the consumers upon request) that far exceded those listed in the contract and handbooks.
This same company was reciently taken to court by the AG of Pa and lost for the same thing.
BTW, this isn't about the health care reform in DC. This family had coverage, which is what those in DC keep claiming is what they are trying to fix.
Speaking as one of the people out there that don't identify themselves as "rep" or "dem" I find your attitude frightening.
You've bought so far into your party identity that it's all clear cut good vs. evil and that you will fall into lockstep with any initiative presented by your party masters.
Heck, you won't even acknowledge that what they've proposed and STILL WON'T PASS isn't that expansive and certainly isn't going to help in a situation like this.
These are the same folks that voted for starting the war, complained bitterly about "Bush's war" and Guantanamo and things like the Patriot act....and have changed NOTHING. I voted for Obama too before you start with the name calling...but I did vote for a republican senator...and a democratic governor....gasp!
I agree with you. The problem with the health care debate is people think that somehow having a universal health care system will solve everything and everyone will get what they want. It won't. SOMEONE has to pay for (on top of our massive debt). We have to still make it attractive to recruit doctors/surgeons. People want what they want, when they want, and without having to pay for it. We are country of nearly 300 million people with health problems all over the place. It won't be easy. Other universal health-care systems aren't immune for the soaring costs either. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html)
This thread is a perfect example. If the health insurance company denied the boy FDA-approved treatment, I could understand. However, it isn't. And $110,000 just for two rounds is a lot of money and that starts to add up other time. But people don't seem to understand that.
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