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Old 02-11-2010, 04:06 PM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,055,505 times
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Some interesting tidbits from one of the advisors to the Gipper himself and George Senior.

"During the George W. Bush years, the welfare state expanded significantly by adding a massive, unfunded drug benefit to the already bankrupt Medicare program."

And this:

"I think the Republican Party is brain-dead. It stands for one thing and one thing only — being against whatever the Democrats are for and regaining political power by whatever means necessary. The idea that the G.O.P. is the party of ideas is laughable.

I still consider myself to be a conservative in the mold of Ronald Reagan, Jack Kemp and William F. Buckley. I do not consider myself part of the “conservative movement” these days because I see almost nothing conservative about it. What now passes for a conservative movement is either pure Republican partisanship or right-wing populism."


He does mention a tax called the value added tax.

Its time to toss ideologues out the room and get cold hard facts from economists whether true conservatives or liberals, and make decisions based on the experience and knowledge of the experts.

Last edited by kovert; 02-11-2010 at 04:39 PM..

 
Old 02-11-2010, 05:19 PM
 
694 posts, read 1,234,697 times
Reputation: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Some interesting tidbits from one of the advisors to the Gipper himself and George Senior.

"During the George W. Bush years, the welfare state expanded significantly by adding a massive, unfunded drug benefit to the already bankrupt Medicare program."

And this:

"I think the Republican Party is brain-dead. It stands for one thing and one thing only — being against whatever the Democrats are for and regaining political power by whatever means necessary. The idea that the G.O.P. is the party of ideas is laughable.

I still consider myself to be a conservative in the mold of Ronald Reagan, Jack Kemp and William F. Buckley. I do not consider myself part of the “conservative movement” these days because I see almost nothing conservative about it. What now passes for a conservative movement is either pure Republican partisanship or right-wing populism."

He does mention a tax called the value added tax.

Its time to toss ideologues out the room and get cold hard facts from economists whether true conservatives or liberals, and make decisions based on the experience and knowledge of the experts.
Well, I could not argue with the one in red as all republicans in Congress have joined in the Neys Chorale: NO, nono, No, no, no, no, NOOOOO, nonono!

Good work if one could get it...
 
Old 02-11-2010, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,595,619 times
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Well said kovert. I think it will be tough to get a majority of American voters waking up to the true facts about both parties. People are too eager to drink the koolaid handed out at campaign time with promises of riches that won't cost a dime and programs that not only fund themselves but produce a profit.
 
Old 02-11-2010, 05:26 PM
 
694 posts, read 1,234,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Well said kovert. I think it will be tough to get a majority of American voters waking up to the true facts about both parties. People are too eager to drink the koolaid handed out at campaign time with promises of riches that won't cost a dime and programs that not only fund themselves but produce a profit.
Who in heaven came out with this Kool Aid thing?
It's wrong. It's Flavor Aid, if you mean the Johnstown cult.
Get it right if want to be part of the choir.
 
Old 02-11-2010, 05:49 PM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,055,505 times
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Thanks for the interest Texan and learning.

I mentioned the value added tax or VAT last post.

A Senator that often gets way too little attention by both sides of the aisle is Fritz Hollings.

Maybe because he talks of substantive matters such as saving our manufacturing industry and get off the free trade myth and have competitive and aggressive trade policies that benefit non-corporate America.

Fritz makes it clear we are in a trade war much like how the colonies were before they decided they had enough and liberated themselves.

The battle we have to fight now is fortunately not one of violence but it is very much political and economic.

"Replacing the corporate tax with a 3% VAT raises more revenue, removes the incentive to off-shore, saves jobs, and promotes exports creating jobs.

Cancel the exemption for off-shore profits as President Obama called for in his State of the Union, and make it a 5% VAT with the added 2% paying down the debt. Those wanting to reduce the deficit will join in support. Don't wait for production to go bankrupt like GM, but once production is endangered impose import quotas and tariffs under Section 201 of the Trade Act. Today, the United States can't go to war except with supplies from foreign countries. Activating the Defense Production Act of 1950 as reauthorized last year will create millions of jobs. Get President Obama to impose a 10% surcharge on imports like President Nixon did in 1971. An industrial policy like this will get Washington rebuilding our economy."


Even a former president of Shell recognizes the need for government to helped protect industry and that "free trade" is a sham (though i don't agree with position on oil subsidies).

" The U.S. is down to four world leading industries: entertainment, out of Los Angeles (heavily indebted to Democrats); information technology, out of the Bay Area (likewise); energy, out of Houston (heavily indebted to Republicans); and financial services, out of New York (indebted to both parties). That's it, folks. We're otherwise second- or third-rung suppliers across the range of manufactured products—except for biotech, a small industry—and we can still (mostly) feed ourselves."

Mr. Hollings deserves much more attention but given the influence Wall Street has over BOTH parties, its no surprise why he's not heard too often.

I will look more into the VAT. Pelosi has been reported considering it. More info on VAT here.
 
Old 02-11-2010, 05:54 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,100,667 times
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Just as I would with a conservative thread, I will do here, what the hell does this have to with economics , particularly Econ 101 which is usually about the study of marco economic theories.

Quote:
Its time to toss ideologues out the room and get cold hard facts from economists whether true conservatives or liberals, and make decisions based on the experience and knowledge of the experts.
All economics is political, it's about making choice regarding the allocation of resources. That my friend is Econ 101.
 
Old 02-11-2010, 05:56 PM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,055,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Just as I would with a conservative thread, I will do here, what the hell does this have to with economics , particularly Econ 101 which is usually about the study of marco economic theories.



All economics is political, it's about making choice regarding the allocation of resources. That my friend is Econ 101.
What the hell is your contribution to the spirit of the thread so far? Zero. You don't like this thread, by all means stay out of it.
 
Old 02-11-2010, 07:56 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,952,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
He does mention a tax called the value added tax.
**** that value added tax. I pay enough in taxes. It's bad enough that for every two days I work for myself, I have to work one day for the gov.

It's frustrating that while the economy is growing, they expand all these social programs. But when the economy contracts, they fight tooth to keep social spending at current pre-recession levels. I say, roll back social service spending to 1998 levels.
 
Old 02-11-2010, 08:01 PM
 
694 posts, read 1,234,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
**** that value added tax. I pay enough in taxes. It's bad enough that for every two days I work for myself, I have to work one day for the gov.

It's frustrating that while the economy is growing, they expand all these social programs. But when the economy contracts, they fight tooth to keep social spending at current pre-recession levels. I say, roll back social service spending to 1998 levels.
How about the very many hundreds of billions given to prop up the financial system after its screw up?
 
Old 02-11-2010, 08:20 PM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,055,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
**** that value added tax. I pay enough in taxes. It's bad enough that for every two days I work for myself, I have to work one day for the gov.

It's frustrating that while the economy is growing, they expand all these social programs. But when the economy contracts, they fight tooth to keep social spending at current pre-recession levels. I say, roll back social service spending to 1998 levels.
If you took time to have read the links especially by Fritz, you would know that Fritz favors eliminating income tax on corporations and implementing a VAT to stop the off shoring of jobs while Barlett and others see VAT as a means of paying off the national debt and for health care costs.

Despite how many partiers that like to sip tea are angry about government interference in their lives, NONE of these older Americans would be willing to sacrifice there government health benefits. And privatizing Medicare and SS could lead to political extinction.
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