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Old 02-18-2010, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, New York
3,727 posts, read 7,011,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYChistorygal View Post
Questions for the Conspiracy people.

Why are you folks so hell-bent on it? What prompted you to think the American government was responsible? Do you not believe that terrorists exist? Do you think everyone loves the USA so something like this just has to be has to be a conspiracy?

I'm just trying to understand your mindset and where you are coming from.

Still waiting.
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:33 PM
 
14,893 posts, read 8,509,702 times
Reputation: 7322
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYChistorygal View Post
See above
Difficult to address your points, point by point since you enclosed the entire discussion in a single quote.

I'll address one glaring example of you distorting or creating "facts".

The planes were not 747s ... they were 767s, but in any case, the 707 is actually the faster plane ... imagine that? You obviously don't check your "facts".

The 707 has a max cruising speed of 621 mph, while the 767 is 568. The 767 is slightly heavier, by about 17k pounds. Without going through elaborate physics calcs, I'd say the difference in maximum mass impact force would be insignificant.

There are others, but I'm not going to sit here cutting and pasting.
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,384,018 times
Reputation: 9617
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
HE STARTED WITH 100 MILLION. WHAT PART OF THIS IS SO HARD TO GRASP????

I'll be happy to explain to you that until he spends 4.6 Billion, he hasn't lost a dime. There was NO POSITIVE CASH FLOW on that complex. It was losing money. The destruction of this was a VERY BIG, VERY BENEFICIAL THING for Mr. Silverstein. GEESSSH!!!

NO, you dont seem to get it

get never BOUGHT the building,, he LEASED it

his initial investment was 370 million(part of the 616 million dollar down payment), not 100 million,
"""Silverstein Properties, Inc., and Westfield America, Inc. will lease the Twin Towers, completed in 1972 at a cost of $370 million, and other portions of the complex in a deal worth approximately $3.2 billion""""


Quote:
It was losing money.
''In January 1997 we had about an 80 percent occupancy rate,'' said Cherrie Nanninga, director of real estate for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the complex. Twenty percent of 10.5 million square feet of space is 2.1 million, which would be a substantial building by itself.

But as a result of the last year's work, Ms. Nanninga, said the complex is over 90 percent occupied and expects to it reach the 95 percent mark by the end of the year. That, she said, would be about as full as the center is likely to get, since there is almost always someone moving in or out. ''Ninety-seven percent occupancy would be full,'' said Ms. Nanninga...
Commercial Property/Downtown; At the World Trade Center, Things Are Looking Up - The New York Times

hmmmm by 1999 it was at 95 percent occupancy....that's not losing money

and as far as the asbestos conspiracy LIE....

“U.S. District Judge John W. Bissell in early February threw out the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey's final claims in a longstanding suit against dozens of insurers over coverage of more than $600 million in asbestos abatement costs at the World Trade Center, New York's three major airports and other Port Authority properties.”

“Granting summary judgment for the insurers in his May 1 ruling, Judge Bissell found among other things that the costs of removing asbestos do not constitute ‘physical loss or damage’ triggering coverage under the Port Authority's all-risk policies.”

“A Port Authority spokesman said the agency is reviewing the ruling and has not decided whether to appeal.”

“The ruling ends the trial phase of a decade-long court battle that began when the Port Authority sued its property insurers in 1991 in a New Jersey state court.

“The suit sought recovery of the Port Authority's huge expenses of removing asbestos from hundreds of properties ranging from the enormous World Trade Center complex-which represented more than $200 million of the abatement costs-to bridge and tunnel toll booths.”
Deanna Spingola -- Killing Several Birds With One Stone

-----------------

he has been PAYING 120 million a year for the last 10 years....that's 1.4 billion right there,,,it is COSTING him and the NYNJPA multiple billion to rebuild the place

-------------------
Before September 11, PATH ridership was projected to reach another new record of 75.1 million passenger trips. As a result of the closure of the World Trade Center terminal and Exchange Place station, PATH’s 2001 ridership declined to 69.8 million. Weekday ridership declined from a pre-September 11 average of 257,967 to 202,092...
The tragic events of September 11, 2001 are unprecedented in the history of our nation and the implications for the economy are also unparalleled.

================

as of mid April 2001, it was still uncertain WHO would get the lease for the wtc, the PA was still in negotiations between silverstein or Vornado Realty Trust (Steven Roth)...Mr. Roth wanted an international icon like the trade center for his company's roster of 20 Manhattan office towers, totaling more than 15 million square feet of space....silverstein got the lease on 27 April...just 4 months before the attacks




he and NYC, and the port athority have LOST MONEY...not gained any

its been almost 10 years......and it has not been rebuilt yet......no building, no INCOME
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,384,018 times
Reputation: 9617
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Difficult to address your points, point by point since you enclosed the entire discussion in a single quote.

I'll address one glaring example of you distorting or creating "facts".

The planes were not 747s ... they were 767s, but in any case, the 707 is actually the faster plane ... imagine that? You obviously don't check your "facts".

The 707 has a max cruising speed of 621 mph, while the 767 is 568. The 767 is slightly heavier, by about 17k pounds. Without going through elaborate physics calcs, I'd say the difference in maximum mass impact force would be insignificant.

There are others, but I'm not going to sit here cutting and pasting.
the towers were designed to 'take the impact' of a 707 flying slowly lost in a fog with no fuel

the FACT is the 767 hit the towers at full speed full of fuel taking out 6-12 stories, leaving all the weight of 25-40 stories of floors it try to be held by comprimised floors......as the BUILDING ENGINEERS said, the WTC did a GREAT JOB
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Old 02-18-2010, 03:42 PM
 
14,893 posts, read 8,509,702 times
Reputation: 7322
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYChistorygal View Post
Still waiting.
I think the better question is why would anyone automatically consider the Government to be 100% trustworthy and truthful? That seems like much more of a stretch.

In any case, this is about having a grasp of history, and being able to apply logic in a contextual manner. Of course, if you are knowledgeable about all of the facts, you really don't need to be a friggin genius to get the idea that something is rotten in Denmark.

A simple example; there is nothing overly unusual about married couples having arguments, or having financial difficulties. There is nothing unusual about having a life insurance policy on your spouse. And it's not immediately cause for suspicion to have a spouse fall victim to an accident causing death. Individually, nothing is overtly out of place. But in combination, an entirely different picture emerges. And that's what we are dealing with here in 911. We have Bill and Mary fighting over Bill's huge accumulation of gambling debt which has caused a financial crisis. Mary accidentally drowns in the backyard swimming pool. As a cursory investigation finds ... Mary was a world class swimmer, and was never known to swim, wearing her street cloths and shoes. It is further discovered that Bill had just recently taken out a 5 Million life insurance policy on Mary. And, a fresh blood stain was found partially cleaned up in the couple's bedroom. When interrogated, Bill claims he had nothing to do with her death, that it was much more likely that 19 Arabs with box cutters drowned her because they hated her shoes.

But seriously, first, the historical foundation for false flag events to promote a political agenda is very common and prevalent among governments, including such acts by the US Government are well documented. That you aren't familiar with this is simply a sign that you are not as knowledgeable and aware as you think you are. Those examples I mentioned that you claim no familiarity with might be something you should look into, if you truly want to become more knowledgeable.

Aside from the well documented examples of such staged events conducted for political purposes .. there is a list of inconsistencies regarding 911 that far exceed the levels of mere coincidence. Individually, many could be explained away as irrelevant or coincidental. But, combined, they can not be. And these things don't simply go away because YOU call them conspiracy theories.

The crime itself is in fact, a conspiracy, as defined by two or more individuals conspiring to commit a crime. The government's official story is simply another conspiracy theory, albeit with more holes than a sieve.

Some of these "inconsistencies and questionable coincidences" are as follows (a brief list, not inclusive)

1) The owner took possession of the collapsed buildings victimized by the attack in a near timeframe before the event, and profited greatly.

2) No buildings of such type have ever collapsed due to fire (Building 7 was not hit by an aircraft).

3) No other buildings collapsed that day, even though many were more severally damaged and experienced greater subsequent fire damage. Only those owned by Mr. Silverstein suffered total collapse of a nature extremely similar to controlled demolition.

4) The Pentagon was running exercises emulating hijacked aircraft ramming buildings in Washington DC and NY on the morning of 911, just as the real events were unfolding (keep in mind that the officials claimed afterward that no one ever imagined that terrorists would use airplanes as weapons). These exercises not only prove that claim a lie, but most likely contributed in the failure of NORAD and the FAA to scramble interceptors in time to prevent the attack, due to the number of fantom radar contacts on their screens as part of those exercises under the command of Dick Cheney. And why is the Vice President commanding military exercises?

5) Rules governing the intercept of aircraft off course and without cockpit communications with air traffic controllers where not followed on 911, even after 2 planes had already impacted both Towers. The flight that allegedly struck the Pentagon occurred well after it was clear that an attack was underway, yet still no intercept of that plane? Given that the Pentagon is the most defended building ... and most surveilled as well, Andrews AFB located 7 miles from the Pentagon launched no aircraft until well after the events were concluded. Jets that were scrambled to protect the Pentagon came from Langley AFB, approx. 120 miles away? Something is very wrong here.

6) ODIGO, an Israeli based instant messaging company sent warnings two hours prior to the attack to it's members at the WTC.

7) The "Dancing Israelis" arrest and data has been classified. The Israelis themselves claimed they were there to document the event. Both 6 & 7 show prior knowledge of the attacks.

8) An inexplicable and highly abnormal volume of "put options" on ONLY American and United Airlines stock just prior to the attacks also suggests foreknowledge of the attacks.

9)The accelerated removal of debris and subsequent destruction of potentially valuable evidence associated with the greatest crime in US history is both illegal, and inexplicable.

10) FEMA on-site the night before the event for another "exercise".

11) The immediate confiscation of surveillance camera tapes from surrounding areas overlooking the Pentagon, along with all of the Pentagon cameras, and yet not one clear video or still shot of a Jumbo Jet crashing into it is available?

12) Though the government claims it never imagined or considered that terrorists would use jets as missiles ... those exact scenarios were the basis for the drills that morning, as well as other drills conducted a year earlier?

13) Though the official story has it that the planes and their black boxes vaporized in the blaze, one of the "hijackers" passports was found virtually unscathed amongst the debris in NY?

14) By the very next day, ALL of the alleged hijackers were identified, with pictures? Cars belonging to the hijackers were found as were plane manuals and Korans inside their luggage found in these cars? ... these suicide terrorists actually packed their bags before their trips to heaven and 17 virgin paradise? Then later, several of those hijackers identified began surfacing alive, claiming they had nothing to do with this event and were no where near the United States that day?

15) The FBI still hasn't listed Osama Bin Laden as wanted for the crime of 911. When asked why, the FBI claims that they don't have sufficient evidence to do so?

16) The Bush administration blocked efforts to even conduct an investigation, and refused to testify under oath? Bush wouldn't even be interviewed by a committee alone, and was joined by Dick Cheney to which neither would testify under oath?

17) Multiple FBI counter terrorist field agents complained about higher ups blocking their investigations of terrorists prior to 911.

18) some of the alleged hijackers received flight training at US military facilities, and at least one was known to have lived in a house rented by the CIA?

19) Mohamed Atta received $100,000 wire from a Pakistani ISI head, General Ahmad on 9-10. And as reported by the NY Times, General Ahmad also met for breakfast on the morning of 911, (while the attacks were occurring) with the two subsequent Co-Chairmen of the Joint-Intelligence Committee investigating the 9/11 attacks, Senator Bob Graham (D-FL) and Representative Porter Goss (R-FL)?

Additionally, three days after the attacks on September 14, the New York Times also reported that members of the Bush Administration met with General Ahmad, again. Those officials were: CIA Director George Tenet; Secretary of State Colin Powell; Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage; Under-Secretary of State Marc Grossman, and our current Vice President, Senator Joseph Biden (D-DE) -- Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

I could list 50 more significant ones ... but if the above doesn't trigger your mind to question the validity of the official story, then neither would a video tape confession.

No one knows EXACTLY what happened on 911. And it's not likely that anyone could answer every question that would satisfy everyone regarding minute details, aside from the perpetrators themselves. So don't bother asking me silly questions like ... Well if that's true, why this ... or explain that ... because likely, no one can.

However, that certain elements of the US Government and US intelligence, along with Israeli intelligence were complicit in the financing and operational coordination of the 911 attacks is without question the only plausible explanation to many of these issues listed that we DO KNOW ABOUT. From the Pentagon exercises being run by Cheney, to the failure of the most sophisticated Air Defense Infrastructure in the world that allowed three hijacked jets to reach three targets unmolested.

We have US Officials meeting with bag man General Ahmed on several occasions prior to 911, on 911, and just after 911 is a smoking gun, especially considering that the 911 commission investigating the attacks dismissed the entire line of questioning about who funded 911 as not overly important, so it wasn't addressed.

In addition, some of the committee members complained bitterly about what a sham the entire investigation and subsequent report was.

What is clear is that Osama Bin Laden, and 19 arab hijackers couldn't have possibly managed to pull this off without a great deal of assistance from high level players.

It is simply not plausible.
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:10 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,271,675 times
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Plausible confusability.


YouTube - 9-11 Was An Inside Job
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:47 PM
 
14,893 posts, read 8,509,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
the towers were designed to 'take the impact' of a 707 flying slowly lost in a fog with no fuel

the FACT is the 767 hit the towers at full speed full of fuel taking out 6-12 stories, leaving all the weight of 25-40 stories of floors it try to be held by comprimised floors......as the BUILDING ENGINEERS said, the WTC did a GREAT JOB
What about building 7? It wasn't hit by a plane. You all keep conveniently avoiding that ... guess what .... so did the 911 Commission Report. But it's still there ... it's not going away.
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,384,018 times
Reputation: 9617
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
What about building 7? It wasn't hit by a plane. You all keep conveniently avoiding that ... guess what .... so did the 911 Commission Report. But it's still there ... it's not going away.
building 7 was hit by tower 1

fact
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:57 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,271,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
building 7 was hit by tower 1

fact
Was that in the 9/11 Commission Report?
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Old 02-18-2010, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,384,018 times
Reputation: 9617
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
.......9)The accelerated removal of debris and subsequent destruction of potentially valuable evidence associated with the greatest crime in US history is both illegal, and inexplicable.
.
where to start. I guess this is as good as any


wrong

the clean up took 6 month to a year

was COMPLETELY gone through with a fine tooth comb.

all material went through fresh kills, and much to include the steel has BEEN KEPT

a entire hangar at JFK houses the debris



a little research would tell you this, instead you would rather repeat conspiracy site point that have been many, times debunked
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