NAACP is a Racst??? (employment, Congress, legal, activist)

[Strel]

Originally Posted by cpt757100

Using socioeconomic factors is only an excuse! As I stated earlier, look at West Virginia and Kentucky these two states have some of the poorest people in the nation yet have a very low crime rate!

That's not the only factor. Did those poor white people grow up with the legacy of slavery? Did they havet to fight for the right to vote? Are they a MINORITY in that community, and all that somes with that?

Do you realize you are ignoring myriad facts that apply here? Make all the excuses you want, your attitude is, in fact, racist.

What is your response to that? And blacks are not the only ones who have gone through oppression! Every group of people on this earth has experienced oppression at some point in time. What about the surfs in Europe in the 1600s?

I don't think they had surfboards then. And serfdom was abolished many centuries ago, and wasn't a RACIAL issue besides. Your analogies are terrible.

What about the fact that the Jewish people were almost wiped off of the face of the earth? The Jewish people are some of the wealthiest on the planet now!

What about them? Was their situation identical to African-Americans? Again, your analogies are terrible. Jews have managed to hang onto their culture in spite of oppression and this is due in no small part to their culture being inextricably intertwined with religion. American blacks don't have that advantage and never did. And even if the Jews can be lauded for their (somewhat) successful resistance to oppression, that doesn't translate into the problems of African-Americans being "all their fault." Again, your analogies are awful.

The truth may hurt, but in order to fix a problem you first have to admit there is a problem, correct?

I think it hurts you a lot more than it hurts me. I don't think this is an argument about whether there is a problem, it is an argument about the nature of the problem and the solution. You want to blame an entire race for (fill in the blank). That's racism. It's generalized prejudice, and there is no excuse for it.

I have been to Appalachia and seen the poor mountain families in Eastern Kentucky and as I stated it is extremely poor but at the same time virtually no crime!

Not a valid comparison.

So please don't go and blame it on being poor!

It's not just about being poor.

I will never lie in order to be politically correct!

Nobody is asking you to. Interesting that you shoud express it that way, though...and this is not a valid counterargument.

The fact of the matter is that there is not one single city in America that is majority black that has a low crime rate!

Perhaps this is a fact. Again, it's what you claim the facts mean in general that make you a racist. It is the sweeping generalizations that you draw from these "facts" that you use to rationalize your racism. Even if every one of your "facts" is 100% true, it's still no excuse for bigotry.

People like you ignore the fact that in order to fix a problem you must take ownership and stop blaming others!

People like me? What kind of "people" would that be? Educated people? I said nothing of the sort, I merely pointed out that you are ignoring some relevant factors in your analysis.

I guarantee you that as long as the black community keeps blaming others that they will never rise up!

Including those factors for which they are not responsible, like institutionalized racism? Like the legacy of slavery that still exists today? You are right that they should not use that as an excuse, you are right that they should overcome the culture of victimhood that some of them seem to embrace. But you're generalizing again...and it's up to them. It is not up to honkeys like us to tell them how to do it, and we don't really have the moral authority to be impatient about it, either.

A black man has plenty of opportunities today! This is 2010 not 1950!

Define "plenty."

I work as a consultant in Human Resources

Well that explains much. BTW I hate Human Resources. Humans are not resources, they are people. I liked it better when you called yourself Personnel, making it a little bit harder for "people like you" to treat persons as chattels.

and I can honestly say that employers have no problems hiring a black man if they are qualified and educated and speak proper.

Yet they hired you. The word you are looking for is "properly." Adverbs FTW.

If they can't meet the criteria then they will not be hired just like a white man will not be hired if they can not meet the criteria!

As it should be. But it isn't in some cases, hence anti-discrimination laws. Then there are "people like you" who don't think they are racist, but actually are once we scratch the surface.

Its just excuse after excuse! Its actually quite the opposite and that is employers are so afraid of blacks using the race card that if they have two equal candidates, one being black and one being white, the black man will usually get the job and that is a fact!

The EEOC might take some issue with your "factoid." I do quite a bit of hiring and firing myself, and part of my job is keeping the boobs in Human Resources (shudder) from getting my organization sued. Fortunately my HR Director seems to have graduated from the same school of thought as you. I say fortunately, because she is a major source of job security for me.

And if you want to call me prejudice for stating facts then go ahead!!!! I'm not going to lie because I may offend someone? I'm not a liar and its too bad that people like you would rather lie then be honest! And thats the problem!

Prejudice is a noun. Prejudiced is an adjective. And there you go again acting like someone wants you to lie, when no one proposed any such thing.

Problem indeed.

[Strel]

Originally Posted by cpt757100

You are right about the black churches, for a college report I tried to stay after and speak...

[/quote]

Perhaps they weren't terribly interested in your telling them that they are all grifters looking to take advantage of the system?

[Strel]

Originally Posted by cpt757100

Why would you listen more and say less???????

Out of respect. You show it to them, they will show it to you.

What about the Jewish people who just 70 years ago were almost exterminated????? Did the Jewish people just sit back and blame others?

Yes, they did. And rightly so. I do believe we even conducted some trials on that issue at a place called Nuremburg. Google it.

Of course not! The jewish people went and educated themselves to ensure it never happens again!

Jews valued education as part of their culture long before the Holocaust. African-Americans had a culture of slavery imposed upon them, a culture that de-valued education. The scars of that cultural rape still exist today.

And trust me the German people were very very cruel to the Jewish people after WW II!

I'm shocked.

They were treated very poorly just until maybe 25 years ago! So please stop with the excuses!

Excuses for what? German racism? I expect they made the same kind of excuses for their hatred and bigotry that you do here. I expect Hitler had a whole host of statistics to justify his methods and goals.

What does slavery over 150 years ago have to do with the black man car-jacking and selling drugs, and running in gangs, and killing people???? What does slavery have to do with the black community looking like a bomb went off?????

You've not understood a single word I have written, have you?

Why is poor white America neighborhoods not full of violent crime!

They are.

Enough of the excuses! The excuses is whats making white america even more racist! People are really starting to get fed up with the excuses!

No, pernicious ignorance is what makes people racist. That and irrational fear of the Other.

[cpt757100]

Perhaps they weren't terribly interested in your telling them that they are all grifters looking to take advantage of the system?[/quote]


Nice responses, but I have to say I hear a lot of excuses! Not trying to be disrespectful however, For every statement I made you countered it with nothing more then an excuse!

Hey I fully admit that I take issue with the excuses the black community makes! You excuses may have been valid 40 years ago, but I truly do not think they are relevant today, I really don't! I have seen many many educated black men go on to have great careers! The ironic thing is that my neighbor is African American and he actually agrees with me! He is from the South Side of Chicago and has told me the only way he got out of the ghetto was by dedication and not blaming others for his shortcomings!

It seems to me that the people who make excuses are the ones who never get out of ghetto and the ones who are dedicated make it out and have great careers and are wonderful people!

So, I dont think I am racist (If people disagree, thats ok) I just refuse to let people make sorry excuses! What does a 18 year old know about anything? Yet he sure will say he is where is today because of the white man or because of slavery! If the black community wants to change then they must stop using slavery as a crutch!

And when I tried to attend the after church conversations I had said nothing previous to that neither did my classmate, but they allowed him to stay! Lets call a spade a spade and say this was racism on their part!

Not one single young black man had to fight for the right to vote! Thats the funny thing the older blacks who suffered through all of the discrimination have no issues! The people with the most issues are the blacks under 40! Figure that one out!

[Strel]

Originally Posted by cpt757100

Perhaps they weren't terribly interested in your telling them that they are all grifters looking to take advantage of the system?

Nice responses, but I have to say I hear a lot of excuses! Not trying to be disrespectful however, For every statement I made you countered it with nothing more then an excuse! [/quote]

It is you that subjectively label the factors I cite as "excuses." No one gets to choose to be born black in America. It happens, and then they have to deal with it. The things I cited are relevant factors in the state of African-American culture today, whether you choose to call them "excuses" or not. They exist.

Hey I fully admit that I take issue with the excuses the black community makes! You excuses may have been valid 40 years ago, but I truly do not think they are relevant today, I really don't!

And to some extent, you are right - but as white people, we have to be very sensitive about such criticism. We caused a lot of the problems they still have today. We essentially made them into what they are, against their will. For that we do bear some responsiblity, or at the very least, we should exercise a little diplomacy and patience. That doesn't mean I should be punished for what my slave-owning ancestors did, but it does mean I'm not in such a good position to criticize blacks for suffering the results of 400 years of slavery today.

I don't think you realize what kind of psychological impact it has on people to be a part of that imposed slave culture, even hundreds of years later. You keep citing Jews - they are still traumatized to some extent by things that happened millienia ago. But they had a coherent, more or less homogenous culture that managed to survive and they've had a lot more time to deal with it.

I have seen many many educated black men go on to have great careers! The ironic thing is that my neighbor is African American and he actually agrees with me! He is from the South Side of Chicago and has told me the only way he got out of the ghetto was by dedication and not blaming others for his shortcomings!

Sure, but let that be their choice. Don't try to impose it on them. We've done enough of that.

It seems to me that the people who make excuses are the ones who never get out of ghetto and the ones who are dedicated make it out and have great careers and are wonderful people!

Of course. I just hope that you understand that some of them don't have nearly as much choice in the matter as you would like to believe. We don't get to choose the environment into which we are born.

So, I dont think I am racist (If people disagree, thats ok) I just refuse to let people make sorry excuses!

I think you are more racist than you think you are. So am I. But I'm trying, Lord, I'm trying hard not to be.

What does a 18 year old know about anything? Yet he sure will say he is where is today because of the white man or because of slavery!

And he won't always be wrong. Now I do agree that if this becomes an excuse not to try, then he deserves what he gets: failure.

And when I tried to attend the after church conversations I had said nothing previous to that neither did my classmate, but they allowed him to stay! Lets call a spade a spade and say this was racism on their part!

Maybe it was, but how would you feel if you were in their position?

[donsabi]

Stephen Girard created and funded Girard College around 1830 for the sole purpose of educating poor, orphaned, white boys. Girard College was totally supported from the Girard estate and didn't get a dime of government money. Somewhere around 1960 the NAACP and other black organizations went to court and declared Stephen Girard a racist and opened his school, Girard College, to blacks. (Please understand that Girard College is funded by the Girard Estate). Today you would be hard pressed to find any students who are not black. Currently Girard College is managed by a black woman.

Moving on to Oprah; she created a school for black children in Africa.
If Stephen Girard can be considered a racist for his desire to help "poor, orphaned, white boys," then Oprah is also a racist.

The NAACP is without a doubt a racist organization.

To the OP; you are a realist and certainly not a racist.

[skel1977]

Originally Posted by Strel

All well and good, except that white people haven't been subjected to centuries of slavery and oppression, and are also very much in the majority.

Facts are sticky things, eh?

Thanks for proving my point. People like you use this BS all the time. Ok it happened. How long will you continue to cry about it and use it as a crutch? Forever it seems.

[Strel]

Originally Posted by skel1977

Thanks for proving my point. People like you use this BS all the time. Ok it happened. How long will you continue to cry about it and use it as a crutch? Forever it seems.

I think you are confused about whose point got proven here.

And I'm whiter than Wonderbread, by the way.

[haineko]

Originally Posted by skel1977

Thanks for proving my point. People like you use this BS all the time. Ok it happened. How long will you continue to cry about it and use it as a crutch? Forever it seems.

Blacks were slaves for over 400 years. This is stating a fact, it isn't crying about it. We could say the same thing about people like you who complain whenever somebody mentions the word 'slavery' in conjunction with other words. Complainers complaining about other people complaining about slavery. This conversation is so irrelevant.

[haineko]

Originally Posted by donsabi

Moving on to Oprah; she created a school for black children in Africa.
If Stephen Girard can be considered a racist for his desire to help "poor, orphaned, white boys," then Oprah is also a racist.

The NAACP is without a doubt a racist organization.

To the OP; you are a realist and certainly not a racist.

Um, Oprah didn't open that school for black children. It is a school for girls, though. She opened in a school in Africa where black people happen to be the majority. Your analogy is false and makes no sense.