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Old 02-19-2010, 07:31 AM
 
78,409 posts, read 60,579,949 times
Reputation: 49688

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer5000 View Post
So infections from surgery are acceptable to you when they cause death in a highly monitored environment? I never said it was just drug related, many are drug related though since you brought it up. The hospital has a time and place however recent studies from the health care debate have shown around 1/3 of procedures to be unnecessary. The answer to everything is pills and surgery.

My girlfriend had a gall bladder problem a few years back. They wanted to remove it ( with no mention of the side effects of life long diarrhea after eating etc, although they did mention the oh so small 1 in 1000 risk of puncturing your bladder and making you incontinent) 2 weeks of really strict diet, some herbs, guess what all better and not a single other issue for going on 5 years.
You bring up an interesting side issue here. See, I used to have high cholesterol...REALLY HIGH. I lost 50lbs, exercise and eat better and guess what?

However, here in the US most people won't make the simple lifestyle changes...like the 300lb gal I saw at McDonalds this summer eating 5 McDoubles....2400 calories approx....something like 50% fat. So, strict diet etc? No way, we want a pill.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,472,986 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
You bring up an interesting side issue here. See, I used to have high cholesterol...REALLY HIGH. I lost 50lbs, exercise and eat better and guess what?

However, here in the US most people won't make the simple lifestyle changes...like the 300lb gal I saw at McDonalds this summer eating 5 McDoubles....2400 calories approx....something like 50% fat. So, strict diet etc? No way, we want a pill.
That exact lifestyle is a win/win for business though.
McDonalds makes money and so does pharma. There is no financial reason to fix a problem that will only decrease revenue for companies. Their goal is to make revenue and continued growth.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:59 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,732,913 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
It wasn't enough for Congress to kill off the public option. Now they want to kill us directly by trying to outlaw nutritious food supplements ... again. The corporate medical industry is doing everything they can to keep the American people from having any option besides their over-priced and often harmful health "care", when they aren't denying coverage altogether that is.

Senators McCain and Dorgan have just introduced yet another thinly veiled attempt to criminalize ordinary vitamin pills, proposing give the FDA the power to preemptively and without cause restrict their distribution, deceptively entitled the Dietary Supplement Safety Act, S. 3002. This is the same FDA that routinely waves through dangerous synthetic drugs that kill hundreds of thousands, hardly a recommendation for their administrative prowess. Yet millions of people take natural vitamins and other food supplements in complete safety already. Where is the epidemic of vitamin pill fatalities? There is none.



Beware of McCain's Freedom-Destroying Dietary Supplement Regulatory Bill
- Beware of McCain's Freedom-Destroying Dietary Supplement Regulatory Bill (http://www.jbs.org/health-care-freedom-blog/5957-proposed-dietary-supplement-regulatory-bill- - broken link)


Read The FAX Petition
Reject S. 3002 DSSA, The Food Supplement Criminalization Act
Just goes to show that McCain is not a conservative. He's, at heart, a progressive--just like Teddy Roosevelt. These people are dangerous to our liberties.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:00 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,732,913 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Apparently you have never heard of hydroxy-cut? Or all the herbal pills that enlarge your penis?

Basically, the LEGITIMATE vitamin and herbal supplement market has become a booming business over the past few decades and is unregulated.

This has opened the door to scammers that sell liver damaging stuff like hydroxy cut not to mention all the cases where con-men have found out they can make small fortunes selling 10-cent vitamin pills for $5 each by claiming they give you a larger weenie or breasts etc.

There are also a number of fake vitamins and supplements on the market. Nothing like selling $3 of placebos to someone for $50 by putting a fake label on the bottle.

So, ironically, this bill could be HELPFUL to the herbal supplement folks in weeding out the fakes?
Have you never heard of caveat emptor?
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:04 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,732,913 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
Your points would be well taken if it were not for the fact that this would adversely affect legitimate and helpful supplements. The hypocrisy of the legislation is what I find bizarre and over the top. Big pharma is literally getting away with murder and the corruption is blatant. If they do not crack down on them too, this bill is ridiculous and obvious in its real intent. In other countries, they are not even allowed to advertise their drugs on TV.
So to protect your freedom to buy whatever you want you're prepared to limit the freedom of companies to advertise? That's not the way to address the problem, which is crony capitalism. Business climbing into bed with politicians for their mutual benefit.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:08 AM
 
175 posts, read 82,792 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
So now "Big Food" is the problem?

Great response. Do you have anything valuable to ad or just a one line nothing?

Do you not see the connection between food and health and how agro business has destroyed our food in large part?
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:09 AM
 
175 posts, read 82,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
My son's condition isn't curable, but it is treatable. A drug company shouldn't make a product to treat it because it isn't curable?

and I said that where? You are missing the big picture here.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:26 AM
 
175 posts, read 82,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
For starters I was referring to SOME of the stuff that comes out under the guise of natural healing which are indeed dicey...just buy it over the internet!
Gem stone and crystal healing, love symbols, totems, magic spells
Weight Loss Wonder Herb: Lose 10, 25, 50 Pounds, or More!

This was the crux of my argument, that this type of legislation could help LEGITIMATE homeopathic purveyors fight off the waves of conmen. See below...remember those awful "Bob" commercials?

Enzyte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Second, western medicine isn't 130 years old. In fact, in borrows upon various treatments whose roots lie a heckuva lot further back than 5000 years even. (ie. Aspirin, even BEARS are known to chew certain barks high in the active ingredient to alleviate toothaches.) So, stop with the handwaving 130 vs. 5000 propaganda. For example, blood gangrene was untreatably fatal until dumb old western medicine used hyperbaric chambers and 100% oxygen.


Oh I see and drug companies telling you to take an online quiz and ask you doctor about their pill is not a scam? The regulation goes against the fundamental belief system of those modalities.

Care to site your western medicine from over 5000 years ago??

The bark you refer to may osha root or perhaps willow bark. Both plants right??

Willow bark is a common herb used for headaches etc. You saying asprin just proves my point of herbs being older. How long has asprin been around 5000 years. Many pharmaceuticals contain active ingredients derived from plants....why? because herbalism has already proved the effectiveness, Big pharma comes along and tries to isolate constituents in a lab, add a bunch of crap and sell it to you. Problem is that doesn't always work.

St johns wort for example. They thought they had it all figured out for depression. Isolated constituents, created synthetics, ran trials.....it failed. You need the plant not a single constituent.

I never said western medicine has no use. It has its good points. Also many bad ones and is overall controlled by money. People pop pills like candy because the doc said this will help with no idea of overall effects.


I prefer a holistic approach to finding root causes and addressing them as opposed to masking symptoms.


Also crystal healing has been used since the beginning of man in many ancient cultures, but I doubt you care to research that.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:31 AM
 
175 posts, read 82,792 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
You bring up an interesting side issue here. See, I used to have high cholesterol...REALLY HIGH. I lost 50lbs, exercise and eat better and guess what?

However, here in the US most people won't make the simple lifestyle changes...like the 300lb gal I saw at McDonalds this summer eating 5 McDoubles....2400 calories approx....something like 50% fat. So, strict diet etc? No way, we want a pill.
that is exactly my point though. Her doctor should be all over her about her weight and eating habits. A pill isn't gonna stop all the other damage and may well cause other problems. This issue does not fall on one point but a much bigger picture of health, food, lifestyle, treatment etc.

Pharma loves those people, its money in the bank for 35 years
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,326,163 times
Reputation: 2889
The homeopathic industry is just as rife with corruption as Big Pharma. Because it's essentially an unregulated field, anyone who wants to can set up a vitamin/homeopathic shop and dole out whatever advice they want. I'm not saying there aren't good naturopaths out there, but there are a lot of scammers too.

I like to browse through the vitamin and herbal section at my local Whole Foods. I saw this earache/ear infection cure targeted for children sitting on the shelf. Being my field, I picked it up to see what it's all about. They are essentially herbal ear drops that go into the outer ear canal. Now I don't expect your everyday layperson to understand the mechanics of the causes of an ear infection (which is located in the middle ear), but simply putting a drop of whatever into the outer ear canal will do diddly to the middle ear and won't have any effect on the ear infection itself. Not only that, but if the eardrum is perforated, adding herbal drops can make things dramatically worse and increase infection. So not only will this "treatment" be ineffective, it could actually cause harm.

Also, many vitamin manufacturers add all sorts of fillers and stabilizers that you wouldn't necessarily want to be putting into your body. A lot of the soft-gel vitamins have partially hydrogenated soybean oil. The regular tablet and capsule vitamins often have sawdust as a filler, not to mention artificial colorants as well. You do realize that MANY of the vitamin manufacturers are actually owned in part, if not wholly owned by big pharmaceutical companies? Supplements are a big field and there is a lot of money to be made. It's great that you have what sounds like a well educated naturopath to guide you, but you have to admit there are many snakeoil salesmen with little to no training out there as well.
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