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Old 02-19-2010, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,697 posts, read 6,459,649 times
Reputation: 5047

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNort View Post
So have any of you read Obama's Green Plan yet? That alone would fundamentally change the United States to a place you would not recoginize. It's really a sick document.

httpwww.landrights.orgGreenPlan4Obama
Huh? What exactly makes this document "Obama's Green Plan"? Did he write it? No, he didn't.

The title page:
TRANSITION TO GREEN

Leading the way to a healthy environment, a green economy and a sustainable future

ENVIRONMENTAL TRANSITION RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION

NOVEMBER 2008
Ah - recommendations for the Obama Administration. And from the introduction:
This report highlights priority environmental recommendations for the Obama administration transition team endorsed by a coalition of national environmental and conservation organizations listed below.
If I wanted to see what President Obama and his administration are doing and want to do in this or any other area, I'd go to the White House website and look there. For example,

Energy & Environment | The White House
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
680 posts, read 1,386,085 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNort View Post
Keep in mind-CO2 is your exhale also. Makes you wonder how there going to cut down on that?
Quantity. To compare our breathing with industrial sources of CO2 is like comparing the amount of water you drink to the irrigation of the desert in Southern California.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:35 PM
 
921 posts, read 1,133,802 times
Reputation: 1599
The DC Metro Area has seen record breaking snow amounts this season.
Something is definitely going on with the global warming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
until he leaves for the north, he should stay in the DC igloo that jim inhofe's family thoughtfully provided him
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:53 PM
 
1,842 posts, read 1,711,154 times
Reputation: 169
Yip next ice age is here!!! It started in 2007/2008
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Old 02-20-2010, 05:13 PM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,621 posts, read 12,753,172 times
Reputation: 20050
Quote:
Originally Posted by inspironmini View Post
Let's face it, obviously no one really knows what is going on in the global warming realm. One minute you hear people putting forth science FOR mad-made global warming with videos like "An Inconvenient Truth", the next people are debunking much of the so-called evidence, and scientists are coming forward to admit that their reports may not have been so accurate after all.

But the truth is, we don't really know for sure whether this whole issue exists or not. We don't have another earth that exists, with life forms who create factories that spew out CO2 that we can compare too. Time will only tell.

What I see on these boards is a turn completely AGAINST global warming, and the majority of people on here dismiss anything that says that we, as humans, are altering our planet. All of a sudden people seem to regard smoke stacks as harmless, and factories as well as their by-products as a neutral thing. So I ask you:

If man-made global warming is a hoax, do people not realize that regardless of whether CO2 is a "pollutant" or not, that it is not the only thing that comes out smoke stacks, or as a by-product of our various factories and refineries?

You can deny the greenhouse effect all you want, but you simply can't deny the smog in Bejing, the air quality of places like San Jose, or the fact that the run-off from the Mississippi River has created a huge dead-zone in the Gulf of Mexico that extends for literally hundreds of square miles.

Why are we all of a sudden dismissing the creation of green jobs and thinking it's ok to continue our disgusting and irresponsible pollution of this planet just because there is a debate going on that man-made global warming might be a hoax?

Am I the only one who thinks that maybe not dumping toxic waste into the very biosphere that created and sustains us is more important and significant then creating jobs or allowing us to continue our repulsive lifestyles of conspicuous consumption and excess?

YouTube - World's Dirtiest Oil: Stop the Tar Sands

we surly can do better than this^^
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Old 02-20-2010, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
38,166 posts, read 22,262,606 times
Reputation: 13915
Quote:
Originally Posted by inspironmini View Post
Let's face it, obviously no one really knows what is going on in the global warming realm. One minute you hear people putting forth science FOR mad-made global warming with videos like "An Inconvenient Truth", the next people are debunking much of the so-called evidence, and scientists are coming forward to admit that their reports may not have been so accurate after all.

But the truth is, we don't really know for sure whether this whole issue exists or not. We don't have another earth that exists, with life forms who create factories that spew out CO2 that we can compare too. Time will only tell.

What I see on these boards is a turn completely AGAINST global warming, and the majority of people on here dismiss anything that says that we, as humans, are altering our planet. All of a sudden people seem to regard smoke stacks as harmless, and factories as well as their by-products as a neutral thing.
First of all, you are creating straw-man in order to add legitimacy to your argument. Who are these people who think that the smoke and chemicals coming out of smokestacks are "a neutral thing"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by inspironmini View Post
So I ask you:

If man-made global warming is a hoax, do people not realize that regardless of whether CO2 is a "pollutant" or not, that it is not the only thing that comes out smoke stacks, or as a by-product of our various factories and refineries?

You can deny the greenhouse effect all you want, but you simply can't deny the smog in Bejing, the air quality of places like San Jose, or the fact that the run-off from the Mississippi River has created a huge dead-zone in the Gulf of Mexico that extends for literally hundreds of square miles.

Why are we all of a sudden dismissing the creation of green jobs and thinking it's ok to continue our disgusting and irresponsible pollution of this planet just because there is a debate going on that man-made global warming might be a hoax?

Am I the only one who thinks that maybe not dumping toxic waste into the very biosphere that created and sustains us is more important and significant then creating jobs or allowing us to continue our repulsive lifestyles of conspicuous consumption and excess?
This is like the 20th thread or so I have seen that tries to make the case that people who disagree with the man-made global warming crap want to pollute the planet.

You must realize that not wanting the government to tax, punish and regulate us to death over global warming, does not mean we want to pollute the planet.

The thing is that the global warming enthusiasts do not care about pollution, all they are fixated on is freaking CO2. If we let these hoax deniers have their way, reducing pollution will be an insignificant concern next to CO2. Countries like China and India can pollute as much as they want, and none of the world will care, as long as they are "going green", ie... reducing their carbon footprint.
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Old 02-20-2010, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 5,159,502 times
Reputation: 2371
Quote:
Originally Posted by inspironmini View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that maybe not dumping toxic waste into the very biosphere that created and sustains us is more important and significant then creating jobs or allowing us to continue our repulsive lifestyles of conspicuous consumption and excess?
I'll just throw in my 2 cents here.

I think there is a big difference between asking people to take care of our planet and people making millions (if not billions) off of things like "carbon credits" which are nothing more than a scam. I love being outside...I live in Colorado. I recycle, I don't drive a gas guzzler, I pick up garbage that's not even mine when I'm out for a run/bikeride, etc. I hope that very soon, green jobs will take advantage of America's natural resources like sun, wind and water and will eventually be the thing that turns our economy around. I do believe humans are playing a significant part in the poor quality of air and water.

But that's a far cry from what the so-called Global Warming group is about. Earth Day and the idea of taking care of our planet has been around for decades. The Global Warming group saw the year of 2005, with one hurricane after another battering Florida, droughts, wildfires, and the devastation of Hurricane Katrina and knew that collectively, the American people were wondering what in the world was going on. They took advantage of our fear and declared they had the answer and that if we didn't act (and in turn, make them multi-millionaires) we would all die a very ugly death.

Skepticism grew when the e-mails were made public. I watched as the Global Warming Summit took place and all of those people who were going to save us from destruction were flying in private jets, taking private cars, etc (the exact thing they're telling us not to do). Seems to me, from a purely logical standpoint, that if we are truly talking about imminent destruction, perhaps some of the delegates could have teleconferenced? Heck, even Oprah uses Skype for 75% of her shows nowadays! Unfortunately, the intention of many (to take care of our planet) has been derailed by a few who don't care what the cause is as long as it makes them money.

We all should take care of our planet. It DOES matter to me that my kids will have clean air and safe drinking water. I don't want to have beautiful animals (and even the ugly ones) become extinct. But that does not equate with individuals and companies who make enormous profits but can't even to manage living their lives by "practicing what they preach." It's hypocritical to tell ME what kind of car to drive, what kind of lightbulbs to have in my house, what kind of faucets to install when the person doing the preaching is living in a mansion (but absolves his sin by buying carbon credits from the company he owns).
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Old 02-20-2010, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 5,159,502 times
Reputation: 2371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
This is like the 20th thread or so I have seen that tries to make the case that people who disagree with the man-made global warming crap want to pollute the planet.

You must realize that not wanting the government to tax, punish and regulate us to death over global warming, does not mean we want to pollute the planet.
It's the new way of doing politics...all or nothing.

If you are taking a pause to wonder if Global Warming really is going to kill all of us in our children's lifetime, then you are nothing more than a flat-earther, SUV-driving litterer who hates polar bears.

If you don't want the government to run our health care system, then you want uninsured cancer patients who have been denied coverage to die.

There is no moderation in policy making nowadays. There can be no compromise. "If you're not with us, you're against us." If we say it enough times it will become truth. If we make fun of those who disagree with us, we can embarass enough of our opponents and they'll let us do what we want.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
680 posts, read 1,386,085 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by the3Ds View Post
If you are taking a pause to wonder if Global Warming really is going to kill all of us in our children's lifetime, then you are nothing more than a flat-earther, SUV-driving litterer who hates polar bears.
I think that's a fair point. The heated rhetoric, sometimes coming out of my own piehole, often obscures a legitimate debate, especially with respect to how we should respond to a warming planet.

Policy decisions must be detached from the science behind the phenomenon of global warming. Any action we take will have largely unpredictable yet intended effects, along with countless unintended consequences. It is not unreasonable to want to spend some time analyzing how we proceed before we take a blind leap into a new way of doing business that could have net negative consequences. Slowing CO2 and methane emissions is clearly important, but the "how" of it is a hot topic for debate and it's not constructive for any group to brand others with the sorts of labels you used in your example above.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:35 PM
 
Location: California
37,159 posts, read 42,310,361 times
Reputation: 35042
Is there a difference between "hoax" and "being wrong"?

I mean civilization has belived many thing thought the ages, and acted on them, that later proved to be wrong.
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