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The breakfast causes lunch argument again? Slow down...take a few minutes to read the Constitution. Presidents have little to do with the budgets that are actually passed. The president may lobby for certain reforms, but Congress passes the budget that goes to the president. Bill Clinton didn't raise taxes on anyone since all tax bills must originate in the House. As for Reagan and Bush Sr., neither had a line item veto or a Republican Congress. Your assertion that Clinton created a surplus that Dubya squandered is mindless cheer leading. The surplus we realized was due to Republican initiatives that limited increases in federal spending (see 1995-96 government shutdown, see Republican Revolution of 1994).
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So the fact that both the twelve year terms of Reagan/Bush41 and the eight of George W. Bush began with massive tax cuts mostly for the wealthiest Americans had nothing to do with it... LOL!
Bill Clinton's eight began with increased taxes which placed rates back to where they were before Reagan...Coincidence???
Do You Work For FOX News??
Last edited by Melvin.George; 02-19-2010 at 09:23 AM..
So the fact that both the twelve year terms of Reagan/Bush41 and the eight of George W. Bush began with massive tax cuts mostly for the wealthiest Americans had nothing to do with it... LOL!
Bill Clinton's eight began with increased taxes which placed rates back to where they were before Reagan...Coincidence???
Do You Work For FOX News??
Hmm, someone isn't paying attention.
Could you provide evidence to back up your implied assertion that presidents control the budgets?
Now, just who do liberals waste money on? Terrorists getting civil liberties in times of war; lazy, unemployed people with welfare programs. Do you see any Republicans fighting for the "rights" of terrorists, or lazy people's right to watch television while swiping their Lone Star card (Texas EBT) to pay for $400 worth of steak and other luxuries at Sam's Club? Of course not! Liberals enable people to do the wrong thing, and that's why THEY don't get it.
Ronald Reagan immediately cut income taxes with half of the cuts going to the wealthiest Americans. The debt quadrupled. There was only one year that the congress actually gave Reagan as much as he asked for in the final budget.
Bill Clinton immediately cut taxes with half of the increased income being paid by the wealthiest Americans. He left surpluses and if the taxes had stayed the same and the surpluses had been applied to the debt and the debt only the debt would be almost non existant by now.
George Bush immediately cut taxes with half the cuts going to the wealthiest Americans and proceeded to double the national debt in eight years.
You people are absolutely full of it.
"It's the tax cuts for the wealthy stupid!"
'Course Richard Clarke said that in George W. Bush's first staff meeting Dick Cheney said..."The Debt Doesn't Matter, Reagan Proved That!"
Just curious...have you thought about what the social security fund would be worth now if George W. Bush had succeeded in shifting funds to the stock market? My 401k and two IRA's my wife has are currently worth about 2/3 of what they were when Bush was innagurated.
Lets review that 401k/IRA statement, shall we?
Market under Republican Congress
UP 372%
Market since Democrats took over Congress
DOWN 42.05% (when chart created), but even if you take it up to todays current DJIA, 10,410, you are down because of DEMOCRATS
Market since Democrats took over Congress
DOWN 42.05% (when chart created), but even if you take it up to todays current DJIA, 10,410, you are down because of DEMOCRATS
I'll guarantee you that if you will take the time to research it Democratic administrations have a much better record than Republicans as far as the market.
Now...you wanna talk congress? What about the fact that The Republicans had a majority from January 1995 till January 2007 and during the period from January 2001 till January 2007 the debt almost doubled?
The reason nothing was done about it was that the administration and the congress were in bed with one another.
All you can do is bob and weave...there's nothing you can come up with which will refute the enormous deficits accrued by Republicans ever since Roanld Reagan first accomodated his rich supporters with a huge tax cut.
I'll guarantee you that if you will take the time to research it Democratic administrations have a much better record than Republicans as far as the market.
How odd.. I provided charts showing otherwise, and your evidence is... "your guarantee"... Sorry but your guarantees dont mean anything to me..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George
Now...you wanna talk congress? What about the fact that The Republicans had a majority from January 1995 till January 2007 and during the period from January 2001 till January 2007 the debt almost doubled?
Actually Republicans didnt hold the majority from 1995 to 2007, they held the majority from 1995-2001, and then from 2004-2006. 2001-2004 was a split Congress..
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetChartbook/Images/federal-spending_01-850.jpg (broken link)
You seem to be so outraged over the debt doubling in 6 years from 2001-2007, so lets now change the discussion to the debt.
First, as proclaimed above, the Republicans only held Congress from 1995-2001, and then from 2004-2006, but from 1997-2001, Democrats like to proclaim there was a balanced budget.. Thats 50% of all Republican controlled Congresses resulted in surpluses.
Second, since Democrats have taken over Congress, they have increased the national debt from $8T to $12T.. Thats 50% in ONLY 3 years, with estimates are that they will MORE than double in the same timeframe.. Why no outrage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George
The reason nothing was done about it was that the administration and the congress were in bed with one another.
Not unlike the current administration ha?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George
All you can do is bob and weave...there's nothing you can come up with which will refute the enormous deficits accrued by Republicans ever since Roanld Reagan first accomodated his rich supporters with a huge tax cut.
Enormous deficits under Reagan? Which look tiny compared to the current ones, which makes the irony in the fact you created a thread to discuss how Republicans dont get it, while proving that you dont either..
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetChartbook/Images/debt-deficits_05-2-850.jpg (broken link)
In January 1981 Ronald Reagan assumed a total national debt of less than $1 trillion...about $980,000,000,000. By the time he and George H. W. Bush left office in January 1993 the debt had quadrupled to $4.4 trillion.
Bill Clinton raised taxes on the upper 1% of taxpayers in this country and even though it took eight years to do it he balanced the annual budget and generated about $450 billion of surplus in fy's 1999,2000 and 2001. If things had been simply left the way he had them set up the total national debt could have been paid off by 2012.
George W. Bush came along in January 2001 and immediately granted a huge tax cut with half of it going to the wealthiest among us. His eight years doubled the national debt to nearly $11 trillion. From surplus to massive debt on which the annual interest is now nearly $500,000,000,000 a year. Each and every year we have to pay that interest. For comparison we spend about $100 billion on education and less than that on the infrastructure. The wealthiest among us doubled their wealth during those eight years while ordinary work-a-day Americans lost value on their wages after the effect of inflation was entered into the picture.
Besides all that the banks ran the economy into a ditch while the Bush administration never even included it's two wars into the regular annual budgets but covered all the costs as "Supplemental Spending."
What a Farce!!
Sickening, isn't it? And where were the Republicans and their outcries all those years as Bush ran up this debt? Funny how we heard little from them until the day President Obama took over.
Sickening, isn't it? And where were the Republicans and their outcries all those years as Bush ran up this debt? Funny how we heard little from them until the day President Obama took over.
Its also funny how all we heard were Dems bashing Bush over deficits and debt, but the day Obama took over, debt and deficits that dwarf Bush's are no longer a problem. Funny how that works.
Actually it looks like you ignore charts because I provided them to back up everything I stated.. While you, well you expect us to take your word for it..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George
Reagan quadrupled it. George W. Bush doubled it again
Presidents dont spend, Congress does..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George
Bill Clinton left a balanced budget. Why are you so blind. The reason I said Blind is that I can't believe you're that stupid.
We arent discussing balanced budgets, which ONLY occured because Clinton borrowed more from the SS fund than was spent. We are discussing deficits. The US Treasury department states that NO surplus took place under Clinton. There isnt ONE year that the national debt went down during the Clinton administration.. NOT ONE.. If you think he did, then maybe you know more than the US Treasury office and should contact them to fix their mistake..
Remember...Richard Clarke said that in George W. Bush's first staff meeting VP Dick Cheney said, "The Debt Doesn't Matter...Reagan Proved That!"
Should he have said something else?
I dont care what someone stated, we are discussing facts and figures, the result of actions.. not meaningless quotes taken out of context.. But now you are proclaiming debts dont matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George
By the way...the debt under Obama is less than 20% of George W. Bush's debt and he assumed a Republican train wreck.
What are you smoking? How the hell do you figure that out?
This is Obamas FIGURES..
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetChartbook/Images/debt-deficits_01-850.jpg (broken link)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George
Obama has at least three years left. When Clinton first started every Republican in the country was screaming debt and destruction
You mean like you are doing now about Bush? The only thing funnier than your argument is you ignoring that CONGRESS spends.. NOT THE PRESIDENT..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George
which turned out to be totally opposite of what really happened. You guys need to go take a primer in reading and listening.
Do I need to educate you AGAIN as to who controlled congress during that "opposite of what really happened"?
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetChartbook/Images/federal-spending_01-850.jpg (broken link)
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