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Old 02-19-2010, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,238 posts, read 8,790,175 times
Reputation: 2647

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Critics can challenge various aspects of the stimulus bill; they can argue that perhaps there are better ways to use this money to boost the economy. But Cantor's attempt to connect the stimulus bill to the loss of 4 million jobs is utterly disingenuous. By the way, last year, Cantor tried to win funding from the stimulus program for a high-speed rail project in Virginia, noting that this would lead to "economic development and job growth."

Obama has indeed lost the message war, and he and his crew can be slammed for that. But a more serious matter is how Republican officials are poisoning the national discourse with demonstrably false information -- which undermines policymaking and, thus, the potential for economic recovery. The real narrative is not how Obama has bumbled the politics, but how the Republicans are killing the truth.

Are GOPers Deliberately Lying About the Stimulus? -- Politics Daily
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Buffalo, NY
3,573 posts, read 3,071,550 times
Reputation: 9787
Yes
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:22 PM
 
Location: USA
2,362 posts, read 2,995,408 times
Reputation: 1854
Yes. Scott Brown recently said that the stimulus has not created a single job.

In a report released on Jan. 13, 2010, the president's Council of Economic Advisers estimated that between 1.77 million jobs and 2.07 million jobs were created or saved by the stimulus through the fourth quarter of 2009.

To back up that claim, the council's report cited four independent analyses of the same question. These estimates were by the Congressional Budget Office, an independent agency that does the number-crunching for Congress, as well by three private-sector economic-analysis firms. Here's what those groups found:

-- CBO: Between 800,000 jobs and 2.4 million jobs.

-- IHS/Global Insight: 1.25 million jobs

-- Macroeconomic Advisers: 1.06 million jobs

-- Moody's economy.com: 1.59 million jobs


PolitiFact | A stimulus report card


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Old 02-19-2010, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,450,777 times
Reputation: 27720
You cannot prove the stimulus failed for the same reason you cannot prove the stimulus worked.
Money spent. We can only hope it did well but there is no measure.

The only way to tell for sure without a doubt is to go back in time, do not pass the bill and let time catch up to today and then compare the two. That is the only measure that would be accurate, but we all know that cannot be done.

So why argue over something that cannot be proved or disproved ?
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,238 posts, read 8,790,175 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You cannot prove the stimulus failed for the same reason you cannot prove the stimulus worked.
Money spent. We can only hope it did well but there is no measure.

The only way to tell for sure without a doubt is to go back in time, do not pass the bill and let time catch up to today and then compare the two. That is the only measure that would be accurate, but we all know that cannot be done.

So why argue over something that cannot be proved or disproved ?
A lot can be directly measured - like the number of teachers, police, etc. that were directly paid by stimulus money.

A lot can be estimated with a good degree of certainty.

To say "no one knows" is not being accurate. Yes, the estimates aren't completely accurate, either, but when GOPer's say "no jobs" were saved or created, that's a lie. And when they tout the money in their own district as "creating jobs," they are not only lying, but being hypocrites at the same time.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,474,193 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perkins Well View Post
Yes. Scott Brown recently said that the stimulus has not created a single job.

In a report released on Jan. 13, 2010, the president's Council of Economic Advisers estimated that between 1.77 million jobs and 2.07 million jobs were created or saved by the stimulus through the fourth quarter of 2009.

To back up that claim, the council's report cited four independent analyses of the same question. These estimates were by the Congressional Budget Office, an independent agency that does the number-crunching for Congress, as well by three private-sector economic-analysis firms. Here's what those groups found:

-- CBO: Between 800,000 jobs and 2.4 million jobs.

-- IHS/Global Insight: 1.25 million jobs

-- Macroeconomic Advisers: 1.06 million jobs

-- Moody's economy.com: 1.59 million jobs


PolitiFact | A stimulus report card



yep created around 1.1-1.7 million jobs......but lost 5 million jobs

look at the employment indicators....not one month it the last 18 has jobs created out done jobs lost

look at JUST LAST MONTH..........LOWEST job losses in 15 months.....net between jobs gained and jobs lost.....22000 lost....and that is the lowest in 18 months.....so saying you created 1 million jobs......is not EXACTLY TRUE....IS IT

the fact is Obama has a NET LOSS on jobs....facts are facts
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:34 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,087,528 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art123 View Post
A lot can be directly measured - like the number of teachers, police, etc. that were directly paid by stimulus money.
untrue, because in order to count these jobs, you must then assume that these jobs would have not been funded in other methods.

Do you really think people would lay off teachers and police in massive numbers as to make a difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art123 View Post
A lot can be estimated with a good degree of certainty.

To say "no one knows" is not being accurate. Yes, the estimates aren't completely accurate, either, but when GOPer's say "no jobs" were saved or created, that's a lie. And when they tout the money in their own district as "creating jobs," they are not only lying, but being hypocrites at the same time.
Lets talk about lying...
You can indeed seperate the money in ones district from the "creating jobs" equation also because you again, need to assume that this money wouldnt have been funded again otherwise.. I'm sorry but the more liberals like to pretend this saved the nation, the more criticism about the reality that millions upon millions of jobs were lost, MORE than was saved BECAUSE of the stimulus and legislation plans.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:34 PM
JPD
 
12,138 posts, read 18,289,438 times
Reputation: 8004
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,238 posts, read 8,790,175 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
yep created around 1.1-1.7 million jobs......but lost 5 million jobs

look at the employment indicators....not one month it the last 18 has jobs created out done jobs lost

look at JUST LAST MONTH..........LOWEST job losses in 15 months.....net between jobs gained and jobs lost.....22000 lost....and that is the lowest in 18 months.....so saying you created 1 million jobs......is not EXACTLY TRUE....IS IT

the fact is Obama has a NET LOSS on jobs....facts are facts
So you would prefer that 6.1 - 6.8 million jobs were lost? Or are you trying to say that the stimulus caused job losses? Because I'd really like to hear the argument for that.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,450,777 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art123 View Post
A lot can be directly measured - like the number of teachers, police, etc. that were directly paid by stimulus money.

A lot can be estimated with a good degree of certainty.

To say "no one knows" is not being accurate. Yes, the estimates aren't completely accurate, either, but when GOPer's say "no jobs" were saved or created, that's a lie. And when they tout the money in their own district as "creating jobs," they are not only lying, but being hypocrites at the same time.
Some of the measurements are bogus as they had no choice of "not part of stimulus" when filling out those forms. It was either a created job or a saved job from what I read. In some states yes..plenty were paid and now the well is dry as you see from the headlines about massive school cuts.
What happens now to those teachers ?

Stimulus job-count guidelines frustrate - Friday, Nov. 13, 2009 | 2 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun
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