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Old 03-14-2012, 05:08 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,440,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
The reality is the market... unless you count subsidized rent.

There was no way I could afford a home on minimum wage in the area where I lived...

I was able to buy a home when I worked for a company where I was guaranteed minimum wage or 5% of my sales volume... this allowed my to buy a shack that was headed for condemnation....

Several of my friends did similar... one couple, both Oakland school teachers bought and sold several times and once took a job that provided housing as a church grounds keeper... just so they could afford their forever home... also a wreck in a very good neighborhood...

My biggest fear is property taxes... you can be going along, taking care of business and improving your home and then... out of the blue your taxes go up 80%.... it happened in Washington and was very sobering.

1) Homeowner subsidies vastly exceed rent subsidies in this country.

2) You would have been able to buy a home on minimum wage where you lived IF government allowed the sale of (smaller house and lot) homes people could afford.

3) 20 years ago there was a "shack headed for condemnation" on my block. The owner had his price, by golly, and would not budge. (I wanted to buy it.) So he ended up with the house condemned and demolished, and he got the bill for demolition, which he didn't pay, so it went on the property as a lien and he ended up getting no cash out of the property. What kind of blockhead loses it all because he won't accept half a loaf?

4) Be grateful for property taxes if you own your home, the alternative of paying higher rent for a home with even higher property taxes is worse.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:41 AM
 
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I always felt there should be neither. It is up to the individual to determine what his work is worth in the market place. If you don't want to work for the wages offered, go someplace else.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:25 AM
 
28,113 posts, read 63,638,166 times
Reputation: 23263
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
If that is true, why are rents in my area up 8-10 percent over last year?
Is this a trick question? Your user name is Freemkt...

Rents are up in many places and still going down in others.

The rentals I manage have not seen an increase since 2007...

Many are doing the best they can and all take very good care of the property.

Generally... I only raise to market when a unit is vacant...

Just for kicks I have posted below the maximum allowable rent increase allowed in my city going back 10 years... no where will you find Oakland rent increases anywhere close to the numbers you presented and for 2011 the maximum is 2%

•July 1, 2011: 2.0%
•July 1, 2010: 2.7%
•July 1, 2009: 0.7%
•July 1, 2008: 3.2%
•July 1, 2007: 3.3%
•May 1, 2006: 3.3%
•May 1, 2005: 1.9%
•May 1, 2004: 0.7%
•May 1, 2003: 3.6%
•July 1, 2002: 0.6%
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:28 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,440,907 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by totsuka View Post
I always felt there should be neither. It is up to the individual to determine what his work is worth in the market place. If you don't want to work for the wages offered, go someplace else.

I inextricably tie housing and wages: if a person is free to work for $1/hr, he should be free to live in housing that is affordable to someone earning $1/hr.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:31 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,440,907 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Is this a trick question? Your user name is Freemkt...

Rents are up in many places and still going down in others.

The rentals I manage have not seen an increase since 2007...

Many are doing the best they can and all take very good care of the property.

Generally... I only raise to market when a unit is vacant...

Just for kicks I have posted below the maximum allowable rent increase allowed in my city going back 10 years... no where will you find Oakland rent increases anywhere close to the numbers you presented and for 2011 the maximum is 2%

•July 1, 2011: 2.0%
•July 1, 2010: 2.7%
•July 1, 2009: 0.7%
•July 1, 2008: 3.2%
•July 1, 2007: 3.3%
•May 1, 2006: 3.3%
•May 1, 2005: 1.9%
•May 1, 2004: 0.7%
•May 1, 2003: 3.6%
•July 1, 2002: 0.6%

Not a trick question, it is reality in Portland. National Association of Realtors says 8 percent, a leading broker (who specializes in rental property) says 10 percent.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:32 AM
 
28,113 posts, read 63,638,166 times
Reputation: 23263
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
1) Homeowner subsidies vastly exceed rent subsidies in this country.
All depends on how you look at it... taking your statement as true the answer is government policy believes there is a benefit to home ownership.

Quote:
2) You would have been able to buy a home on minimum wage where you lived IF government allowed the sale of (smaller house and lot) homes people could afford.
I was able to buy a home working for minimum wage... saved enough to pay cash for it just before it was condemned... 25 x 100 city lot with a 1911 700square foot shack on it...

Quote:
3) 20 years ago there was a "shack headed for condemnation" on my block. The owner had his price, by golly, and would not budge. (I wanted to buy it.) So he ended up with the house condemned and demolished, and he got the bill for demolition, which he didn't pay, so it went on the property as a lien and he ended up getting no cash out of the property. What kind of blockhead loses it all because he won't accept half a loaf?
People are funny and diverse... what you see a rational decision someone else would see differently.

Just look at how many have been holding homes for years in hope the market would come back... those that bailed early were often the smart ones...

Quote:
4) Be grateful for property taxes if you own your home, the alternative of paying higher rent for a home with even higher property taxes is worse.
Yes... but not really accurate where I am... rents are strictly controlled in several Bay Area cities...
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:34 AM
 
28,113 posts, read 63,638,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I inextricably tie housing and wages: if a person is free to work for $1/hr, he should be free to live in housing that is affordable to someone earning $1/hr.
Happens each and everyday... some people have no income and they and their family live in nice homes through rent subsidies.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:38 AM
 
28,113 posts, read 63,638,166 times
Reputation: 23263
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt1984 View Post
Wages have not kept up with inflation and not enough to keep up with the increasing costs of things. Consider that in 1991 the min wage was 4.25 so in over 20 years the min wage has only gone up $3.00.
I have first hand knowledge of at least one example.

In 1992 the home next to property I managed sold for 90k... in 1999 it sold for 180k and in 2007 it sold for 510k...

In 2011 it sold for 70k....

So, at least in parts of East Oakland home prices are way down at the same time wages in the area are $10 an hour.

On Jan. 1, 2012 San Francisco's minimum wage rose to $10.24 an hour, almost $3 an hour higher than the federal minimum wage.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:57 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,440,907 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
All depends on how you look at it... taking your statement as true the answer is government policy believes there is a benefit to home ownership.



I was able to buy a home working for minimum wage... saved enough to pay cash for it just before it was condemned... 25 x 100 city lot with a 1911 700square foot shack on it...



People are funny and diverse... what you see a rational decision someone else would see differently.

Just look at how many have been holding homes for years in hope the market would come back... those that bailed early were often the smart ones...



Yes... but not really accurate where I am... rents are strictly controlled in several Bay Area cities...
Government policy speak wit forked tongue - it believes there is a benefit to home ownership ONLY for the middle and upper classes. Government impedes home ownership among the poor and working classes.

2500 sq foot lots not allowed where I live. The few 5000 sq foot lots ("skinny houses") here have generated hostility and controversy

Rent control was one of the unintended effects of Prop 13. Renters were sold the idea that all that property tax relief would lower rents, and when rents kept going up, renters got angry. Way to go California!
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:59 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,440,907 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Happens each and everyday... some people have no income and they and their family live in nice homes through rent subsidies.

They were either very lucky or (most likely) very patient and able to wait a decade or longer.
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