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Old 03-09-2010, 05:27 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,264,411 times
Reputation: 22751

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Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
A system like Canada has is working , not perfect but it works...and they have the best finuncal system in the world. We should take a leason from them, and all the other " socialists" Countries in the world.... I can tell you for sure that the people we elected to office...ether party.. will not give up their socialist health care. The Government is the largest provider of Health care now...I do not see that changing any time soon. better to join them than give it all away to the Insurance Giants. The only true system that will work for the people is Universal health care , where there are no special interest , no favored few , no uninsured as with that system there is actually no insurance.....And there should not be. I hate insurance in all forms , but it is a gamble they take , to make a profit, but should not take with peoples lives...that should be off limits.
Frankly, I think going to a single payor system may be the best solution. I don't like one thing about the Canadian system - long wait times for diagnostics. However, I think we OVER USE diagnostics here, running up cost (and I work w/ healthcare statistics, so I feel confident about saying this).

Docs need to make a LOT less money, as they do in Canada and UK. And folks need to have access to healthcare provided by folks other than docs for most things - nurse practitioners, PAs. Lower charges.

We are too used to the insurance system for our own good. Best to buy catastrophic insurance - high deductible - and pay for everything out of pocket. Then, if you have surgery or an accident and end up in the hospital, at least you won't go bankrupt b/c you do have coverage that kicks in.

We have a terrific system - it is just too damn expensive. So we need to figure out how to change the system rather than put a bandaid on it w/ insurance mandates - and legislation that adds to the debt w/ all sorts of unrelated pork.
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:28 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,264,411 times
Reputation: 22751
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
My wife will appreciate it, because she has nothing, can't get nothing with our good, hard earned money.
And that should be changed! But it doesn't take 2700 pp to do that, lol. It would only take a few lines to amend the Public Health Care Act to prohibit denial of insurance due to pre-existing conditions.
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 9,044,046 times
Reputation: 3360
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
And folks need to have access to healthcare provided by folks other than docs for most things - nurse practitioners, PAs. Lower charges.

We are too used to the insurance system for our own good. Best to buy catastrophic insurance - high deductible - and pay for everything out of pocket. Then, if you have surgery or an accident and end up in the hospital, at least you won't go bankrupt b/c you do have coverage that kicks in.

We have a terrific system - it is just too damn expensive. So we need to figure out how to change the system rather than put a bandaid on it w/ insurance mandates - and legislation that adds to the debt w/ all sorts of unrelated pork.
Agree with all of the above Ani. Why should my insurance pay Dr. rates for my kid to get acne cream? We can't see the nurse or PA, we have to see the doc or even worse yet....the specialist-dermatologist!! They shouldn't be the first step in the line of treatment but the last.

I'm afraid our president doesn't fully understand the benefits of HDHP/HSA's. He equates them to low end car insurance (which a lot of people have when they carry no loan and can afford to replace their car...very cost effective option sometimes) where you still pay premiums and a high deductible but you don't get much in return. Most of the HDHP plans are purchased by small business and self employed and they are VERY GOOD products. Yes, the deductibles are high but the savings in premiums can more than make up the difference, especially for folks who aren't heavy users. Add in that people are spending their own money (or actual money supplied by the employer) from the HSA's and consumers manage their own health care costs much better....reducing them overall. No, it's not by skipping appointments or forgoing care, it's by shopping around, using the dollars wisely and getting involved in paying directly for their own care.
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:06 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,264,411 times
Reputation: 22751
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Agree with all of the above Ani. Why should my insurance pay Dr. rates for my kid to get acne cream? We can't see the nurse or PA, we have to see the doc or even worse yet....the specialist-dermatologist!! They shouldn't be the first step in the line of treatment but the last.

I'm afraid our president doesn't fully understand the benefits of HDHP/HSA's. He equates them to low end car insurance (which a lot of people have when they carry no loan and can afford to replace their car...very cost effective option sometimes) where you still pay premiums and a high deductible but you don't get much in return. Most of the HDHP plans are purchased by small business and self employed and they are VERY GOOD products. Yes, the deductibles are high but the savings in premiums can more than make up the difference, especially for folks who aren't heavy users. Add in that people are spending their own money (or actual money supplied by the employer) from the HSA's and consumers manage their own health care costs much better....reducing them overall. No, it's not by skipping appointments or forgoing care, it's by shopping around, using the dollars wisely and getting involved in paying directly for their own care.
YEP! You said it and I agree with what you said, lol.

We figured out a high deductible "catastrophic" type insurance works best for us. Of course, all insurance premiums are "too high," but then - so is my car insurance! The point of "insurance" is to indemnify against bankruptcy, not this crazy system we have somehow evolved with co-pays, for heaven's sake. Just give us lower rates and more out of pocket - that in itself would stop the over-use. Give us PAs and nurse practitioners. Give us more of the Dox in a Box options - like we see in some pharmacies - where a person can go get a strep test for a few dollars (make it cheaper than it is now). Quit penalizing not-for-profits who attempt to set up clinics for the poor by slapping on all kinds of regs. Anyone IN the healthcare system knows what I am talking about . . . it doesn't matter where you are along the continuum of care - it is all about making a profit b/c otherwise, FOLKS CANNOT STAY IN BUSINESS!!!! But the shortfall situation means hospitals have to charge higher costs to make up for folks who don't pay. If people could get healthcare that didn't cost them so much, they would do that! So . . . pay a PA $35 out of pocket - as the TOTAL CHARGE for the service. I think we would all be fine with that.

And we must add a discussion about pharmaceuticals . . . that is the most lobbied, ridiculous situation . . . most folks have no clue that we under-write most of the expensive research done to develop new pharm thru/ NIH!!! So that is horse hooey that drugs cost so much "because of R&D." Your tax dollars are already under-writing these studies! BUT - and here is the crucial point - the manufacturer retains the patent, even tho your tax dollars have underwritten the research. And then, the manufacturers turn around and charge us an arm and a leg for the products your tax dollars helped develop and test.

Oh, yeah . . . there is a whole lot that could be done to IMMEDIATELY lower the cost of healthcare. But guess what? It is not the stuff in that healthcare bill!!!! The things Obama is touting are only a few small provisions in the legislation . . . and they could be changed IMMEDIATELY with a few pages of amendments to the Public Health Services Act.

2700 pp of pork to fund everyone's pet project is ridiculous. Get down to business and pass what needs to be passed to lower costs - NOW. And make it effective upon ratification.
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,061,236 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Frankly, I think going to a single payor system may be the best solution. I don't like one thing about the Canadian system - long wait times for diagnostics. However, I think we OVER USE diagnostics here, running up cost (and I work w/ healthcare statistics, so I feel confident about saying this).
We do have wait times, but as you can see on the charts in this link they are getting shorter...I don't know about diagnostics, but I've never had to wait more than a couple of weeks. Of course if it is urgent you are seen right away.
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/cpa/mediasite/waitlist/median.html (broken link)

Quote:
Docs need to make a LOT less money, as they do in Canada and UK. And folks need to have access to healthcare provided by folks other than docs for most things - nurse practitioners, PAs. Lower charges.
Doctors in BC aren't exactly starving. The average B.C. physician earns $300,000 a year. The fees here are second in Canada only to Alberta. Of course specialists earn much more.

Quote:
We are too used to the insurance system for our own good. Best to buy catastrophic insurance - high deductible - and pay for everything out of pocket. Then, if you have surgery or an accident and end up in the hospital, at least you won't go bankrupt b/c you do have coverage that kicks in.

We have a terrific system - it is just too damn expensive. So we need to figure out how to change the system rather than put a bandaid on it w/ insurance mandates - and legislation that adds to the debt w/ all sorts of unrelated pork.
My heath insurance cost is $57 per month.
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 9,044,046 times
Reputation: 3360
I never have enough rep for you Ani!! Good post.

And I had no idea we were paying for all of the pharmaceutical research. Why don't we all know that so that we don't sound like morons defending pharma and their need to recoup costs.
They need to decide...do they want the government in or out. In means they get the funding but not the exclusive patent. Out means they pay for their own research and get a limited patent...maybe some kickback when the drugs go generic but somehow prices have to come down.

When we lived in TX we had health clinics. If I recall, everyone paid something but it was much less than at the docs office. We went there to get the kids their shots, $12 at the clinic or $40 at the docs office for the same shot. I loved our pediatrician but with two kids and all those shots it was well worth the savings to go to the clinic. It's like going to Aldi's for groceries (I know you know what I mean Ani)....it's not fancy, you can't get everything you want there, bag your own, generic store but it serves lower income folks as well as people who just want to get more for their dollars. Why can't we have something similar to the TX clinics everywhere??
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:54 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,264,411 times
Reputation: 22751
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
I never have enough rep for you Ani!! Good post.

And I had no idea we were paying for all of the pharmaceutical research. Why don't we all know that so that we don't sound like morons defending pharma and their need to recoup costs.
They need to decide...do they want the government in or out. In means they get the funding but not the exclusive patent. Out means they pay for their own research and get a limited patent...maybe some kickback when the drugs go generic but somehow prices have to come down.

When we lived in TX we had health clinics. If I recall, everyone paid something but it was much less than at the docs office. We went there to get the kids their shots, $12 at the clinic or $40 at the docs office for the same shot. I loved our pediatrician but with two kids and all those shots it was well worth the savings to go to the clinic. It's like going to Aldi's for groceries (I know you know what I mean Ani)....it's not fancy, you can't get everything you want there, bag your own, generic store but it serves lower income folks as well as people who just want to get more for their dollars. Why can't we have something similar to the TX clinics everywhere??
The reason we can't have these types of clinics: reimbursement issues. Plain and simple.

Now - didn't mean to say that pharma companies NEVER do their own research, b/c they DO - but a tremendous amount is underwritten by (and performed in facilities owned by) NIH. Go read about NIH - you will have to sort through a LOT of info but the studies are there and so is the info on partnerships w/ pharma (and various scientists "on loan" from pharma - or working in conjunction with pharma companies).

See - that is why all the controversy over stem cell research. I had to laugh when folks got all upset about the gubment putting restriction on stem cell research, b/c MSM demonized that decision, but never explained that the whole point was - GOVERNMENT FUNDING! There would be no government funding for stem cell research, unless you used the cells sanctioned by the government.

That had not a damn thing to do with private researchers, pharma - whatever!!!! Folks should have been saying - Now, wait a minute. Why is this a big deal? Pharma companies can do all the stem cell research they want - as long as they are not using government dollars.

They are doing stem cell research in other countries! Our companies here evidently don't care to move forward if they have to invest their own money, lol. Or - at least - they were sure screaming about it - and then went on a campaign to convince the public that scientists were not ALLOWED to do stem cell research in this country. NOPE - it was merely that the federal government was not going to PAY for that research.

Pretty sneaky media campaign, eh? The public is so easily manipulated - just as they are being manipulated with this ridiculous legislation.
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,927 posts, read 14,115,131 times
Reputation: 16638
Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
Most Doctors are in favor of Single payer health car insurance. They are the ones on the front line , and should know. I have talked to many Physicians that have grown very tired of fighting with the Insurance companies.
Have you talked to those who deal with Medicaid and Medicare patients or the reimbursement process?

Based on my sources, (subjective) physicians are balking at taking on more patients who are not privately insured, because of the "problems" with Uncle Sam.

And the patients who deal with brusk physicians, and are speedily shoved out the door with prescription in hand, ASAP, do not think highly of Medicaid / Medicare... especially after long waits in the queue.

Frankly, government is the cause not the cure, for high cost in medical care.
Giving it all to government, to mismanage, will be a disaster for the American people.

Remember, once you are a recipient, the donor has the power to dictate. And you can bet that "unhealthy life choices" as determined by some faceless bureaucrat, will come to haunt us in the coming years. Especially, when that decision was ill made, and politically based.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:23 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read 15,907,904 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Have you talked to those who deal with Medicaid and Medicare patients or the reimbursement process?

Based on my sources, (subjective) physicians are balking at taking on more patients who are not privately insured, because of the "problems" with Uncle Sam.

And the patients who deal with brusk physicians, and are speedily shoved out the door with prescription in hand, ASAP, do not think highly of Medicaid / Medicare... especially after long waits in the queue.

Frankly, government is the cause not the cure, for high cost in medical care.
Giving it all to government, to mismanage, will be a disaster for the American people.

Remember, once you are a recipient, the donor has the power to dictate. And you can bet that "unhealthy life choices" as determined by some faceless bureaucrat, will come to haunt us in the coming years. Especially, when that decision was ill made, and politically based.
Well , you heard it right here , the truth , from a Canadian. Working quite well it seems. We are supposed to to be so good at everything, that can do spirit , lets take the Canadian System, tweak it a bit, improve where needed ,...and stop all the crazy Politics, partisan , hate monger talk.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:25 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read 15,907,904 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
We do have wait times, but as you can see on the charts in this link they are getting shorter...I don't know about diagnostics, but I've never had to wait more than a couple of weeks. Of course if it is urgent you are seen right away.
Province of British Columbia - Media Site - Provincial Median Wait Times (http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/cpa/mediasite/waitlist/median.html - broken link)

Doctors in BC aren't exactly starving. The average B.C. physician earns $300,000 a year. The fees here are second in Canada only to Alberta. Of course specialists earn much more.

My heath insurance cost is $57 per month.
Its about time , I have been waiting for some Canadian input . Thanks for the truth.
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