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Old 09-24-2010, 05:28 PM
 
6,082 posts, read 6,024,486 times
Reputation: 1916

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Modern day Rooseveltians give their take on Summers departure.

"Where does Obama go with the NEC director from here? This opening would be an excellent opportunity for progressive and alternative voices to be heard within the Obama economic team. For better or worse, the initial team was designed to have insight into the current way the financial sector works. The financial crisis is now over, and the financial reform bill passed. The issue facing the country on the economic front will be a period of high joblessness and anemic growth for years. With Congress becoming deadlocked this next year, someone who can think of bold and aggressive short-term solutions while also visioning the arguments for a broad-based prosperity over the next decade is essential. As Steve Clemons noted, Obama wanted a team of rivals but ended up with a team of Rubins. Now is the exact time to break this."

 
Old 09-24-2010, 06:23 PM
 
Location: NC
1,672 posts, read 1,767,461 times
Reputation: 524
Kovert,

I'm going to save you some grey hairs:

How facts backfire - The Boston Globe
 
Old 09-24-2010, 06:58 PM
 
6,082 posts, read 6,024,486 times
Reputation: 1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maabus1999 View Post
Kovert,

I'm going to save you some grey hairs:

How facts backfire - The Boston Globe
I think i might already have read that.

What can I say, I'm glutton for punishment.
 
Old 09-24-2010, 07:06 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,080,845 times
Reputation: 11095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maabus1999 View Post
Kovert,

I'm going to save you some grey hairs:

How facts backfire - The Boston Globe
Good article...

“The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong,” says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon — known as “backfire” — is “a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.”
 
Old 09-24-2010, 08:27 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,745,522 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Well since it appears you have trouble understanding graphs, maybe you'll get this.

"The buildup and involvement in World War II plus social programs during the F.D. Roosevelt and Truman presidencies in the 1930s and 40's caused a sixteenfold increase in the gross debt from $16 billion in 1930 to $260 billion in 1950.

After this period, the growth of the gross debt closely matched the rate of inflation where it tripled in size from $260 billion in 1950 to around $909 billion in 1980."
you first post that keynes and FDR set up a system to reduce debt, but then turn around and mention that the debt went up from 1930 to 1950. in fact the debt went up faster after we joined world war two, but they were still going up all through FDRs administration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moionfire View Post
Actually, most economist today- even conservative ones(like Milton Friedman) believe it was the poor monetary policy- not massive defecits or FDR programs that prologned the depression. The money supply increased by at least 20% !!!
there were many reasons why the depression lasted as long as it did, but you have to understand why the depression hit in the first place, and then deal with the moves hoover and FDR made after the market crash of 1929.

during the 1920s we had a roaring economy going, easy credit, the market growing fast, people buying stocks on margin, and being able to sell stocks to cover any margin calls(sounds like 1996-2008 with the housing bubble doesnt it). during that time people got overextended on credit, and the government debt was also going up. banks were allowed to act as investment companies as well. when the first bank collapsed, it started a row of dominos falling, which caused a run on the markets to cover margin calls, but often times stock prices fell fast enough that people lost money in the markets and couldnt cover their margins, and that caused a run on the banks, etc.

after the market crash, hoover tried increasing social spending to help people, and he tried lowering taxes to spur on the private industry. the problem is though that the people were not spending money to buy things, unless they really needed them, they were instead paying off household debt. then hoover signed the smoot-hawley tariff act, and that hurt foreign sales of US goods. when FDR came into office, he raised taxes, and increased spending a huge amount. fortunately FDR did spend on building the infrastructure, roads, the electrical grid, etc. but the people were still not spending money like the government wanted them to to get the private industry to expand and hire people. when world war two hit, we had to put people to work to make the supplies needed to fight the war, and support our allies. after the war was over, the depression would have been back on though, except that truman reduced taxes, and cut regulations, which did spur on the economy. the people had cut household debt to less than 20% of the GDP, while during the same time period the government had increased their debt to 65% of the GDP. eisenhower increased the debt by building the interstate highway system.

unfortunately the national debt has increased every year since 1932.

keynesian economics is a good system in the short run, but not for the long term.
 
Old 09-26-2010, 07:49 PM
 
6,082 posts, read 6,024,486 times
Reputation: 1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you first post that keynes and FDR set up a system to reduce debt,

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
but then turn around and mention that the debt went up from 1930 to 1950.in fact the debt went up faster after we joined world war two, but they were still going up all through FDRs administration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
"The buildup and involvement in World War II plus social programs during the F.D. Roosevelt and Truman presidencies in the 1930s and 40's caused a sixteenfold increase in the gross debt from $16 billion in 1930 to $260 billion in 1950.

After this period, the growth of the gross debt closely matched the rate of inflation where it tripled in size from $260 billion in 1950 to around $909 billion in 1980."
Ah, did you actually read the posts of mine you're quoting.
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