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Look, I get that it can still be a hurtful and derogatory word for some people when used with that intent and I certainly don't support the use of any word to convey those negative stereotypes. However it is just a word and aside from boiling in oil those who supposedly use words as weapons (which I don't think achieves ANYTHING other than further segregation and resentment) it astounds me there is rarely a time when we actually look at these terms and educate and expand our views in order that the issue moves past words to a better understanding.
While reviewing a chapter about identity and the body, Zaruba referred to himself as “a ****** on the corporate plantation.”
To me his use of the world within this context was an inclusive one. He was saying that we are all no more than slaves to the corporate world.
It's sad that the person who made the complaint has now been able to negatively impact the life of someone who was pretty much in the complainants corner with no onus on the complainant to have learned a damn thing about context OR have an understanding about inclusion.
In other words by default basic ignorance wins. And when ignorance wins, no one wins.
Well then why didn't he just use the word "slave"? Sorry, but the fact that he used the word along with plantation means that he was using the word to describe black people and that's how it's not supposed to be used. Having changed the definition over time does not mean that the origin is still not a malicious one. The word originally is a southern mispronounciation of the spanish word "negro" which was used to describe the dark skin of the Africans who were enslaved.
I once looked it up in an old (I think from the 70s) Webster's and the first definition that came up was "lazy". Now they've taken out that definition and started including "ignorant" as well as pointing out the fact that it is offensive.
Having said all that; I have not taken this man's class and I know nothing of him other than what was written in the article so I do not know if his "political incorrectness" disclaimer is trully a warning and he uses such phrases to make points or if it is simply an excuse to get away with using such phrases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime
This is one of the most assinine reasons to fire someone! I as a blackman do not use it or condone the use of the word, but in proper context it can be very pwerful. This man used it to make a point and in NO WAY was it been used in a demeaning manner. Whoever the COWARD who reported this man should be forced to apologize for wasting everyone's time with this garbage. Blacks as well as whites and everyone in between the racial and color spectrum KNOW when the word is used in such a manner in order to insult them. I'm more offended by the stupidity of the SNITCH who dared not post their name then the actual use of the word!
I guess that means that you speak for the entire black culture then.
I am a Salvadoran and we have a very offensive word where I come from that, in recent years, has started to be used to describe Salvadorans because other cultures have heard us use it towards each other in a comedic context to mean "friend" or "buddy" much like the "N" word (when you end it in "ah") is used among friends (and not just black friends; I have actually seen hispanic children using the "N" word with each other but I'm digressing) and I hate it.
It is a curse word, first of all, and I was taught that, not only do you not use it, but you definitely do not use it to describe someone else. So when I hear other cultures using it (usually Mexicans) it erks me and it does so even more when I hear it being used with malice. The excuse is always, "What? You guys use it all the time." to which I always respond, "I never use it and I don't want to hear it used in that fashion in my presence." Of course, this has always been a conversation that I hold with someone whom I know because I could care less if a stranger gets his teeth knocked out by someone who finds it offensive. IMO it serves them right for either (a) using a word without knowing its meaning or (b) knowing its meaning and then using it anyway when you know it's a curse word.
See? I don't care if you're cool with using the word and you and your friends find it funny and I couldn't stop you from doing it if I did. But that doesn't mean that just because other Salvadorans are okay with it, I am. The same goes for the "N" word.
I remember seeing a comedy movie and the attorney used assh**e to describe the plaintif. The judge threatened to hold the attorney in contempt. The attorney came back with a great oratory describing sometimes assh**e is the only word that accurately describes someone. The judge accepted the argument.
Sometime n***** is the only word to describe a certain black person. Just as cracker, ******, wop, spick or any other slur. It describes the behaver of a person of certain ethnicity behaving in a manner not normally accepted. As described above, "but in proper context it can be very powerful".
It is not going to stop. Sometime a person is just an assh***e.
I remember seeing a comedy movie and the attorney used assh**e to describe the plaintif. The judge threatened to hold the attorney in contempt. The attorney came back with a great oratory describing sometimes assh**e is the only word that accurately describes someone. The judge accepted the argument.
Sometime n***** is the only word to describe a certain black person. Just as cracker, ******, wop, spick or any other slur. It describes the behaver of a person of certain ethnicity behaving in a manner not normally accepted. As described above, "but in proper context it can be very powerful".
It is not going to stop. Sometime a person is just an assh***e.
Nope. The reason why those words don't work to "decribe the behavior or a person of certain ethnicity" is because those words are meant to generalize an entire ethnicity. "WOP" isn't used to describe a certain type of Italian like "Guido" is supposed to represent low class Italians. "****" isn't used to describe a type of hispanic person like "chuntaro" is supposed to describe uneducated and low class Mexicans. The words you gave are all words that were made up by people who were not a part of the culture being discrimated against while the ones I gave originated within the specific culture and then became a norm.
Again, don't think that just because Chris Rock said that there are black people and there are n--gers "and n---gers 'got' to go!" that suddenly makes it okay to use the word in public. Not every black person is going to accept that you "didn't mean it towards them".
What gets me is when the word is used in something like music. There aren't many hip-hop/R&B songs that I like but Tu-Pac are among the artists I do like and he uses the N-Word left and right. I listen to his music with earplugs on my iPod or I'm careful that my windows are rolled up in my car as not to be un-PC about it. I think his lyrics are deep and thought-provoking. I'm curious what blacks think when they see a non-black listening to that kind of music. Am I being "too cautious" or "doing it right"?
Well then why didn't he just use the word "slave"? Sorry, but the fact that he used the word along with plantation means that he was using the word to describe black people and that's how it's not supposed to be used. Having changed the definition over time does not mean that the origin is still not a malicious one. The word originally is a southern mispronounciation of the spanish word "negro" which was used to describe the dark skin of the Africans who were enslaved.
I once looked it up in an old (I think from the 70s) Webster's and the first definition that came up was "lazy". Now they've taken out that definition and started including "ignorant" as well as pointing out the fact that it is offensive.
Having said all that; I have not taken this man's class and I know nothing of him other than what was written in the article so I do not know if his "political incorrectness" disclaimer is trully a warning and he uses such phrases to make points or if it is simply an excuse to get away with using such phrases.
I guess that means that you speak for the entire black culture then.
I am a Salvadoran and we have a very offensive word where I come from that, in recent years, has started to be used to describe Salvadorans because other cultures have heard us use it towards each other in a comedic context to mean "friend" or "buddy" much like the "N" word (when you end it in "ah") is used among friends (and not just black friends; I have actually seen hispanic children using the "N" word with each other but I'm digressing) and I hate it.
It is a curse word, first of all, and I was taught that, not only do you not use it, but you definitely do not use it to describe someone else. So when I hear other cultures using it (usually Mexicans) it erks me and it does so even more when I hear it being used with malice. The excuse is always, "What? You guys use it all the time." to which I always respond, "I never use it and I don't want to hear it used in that fashion in my presence." Of course, this has always been a conversation that I hold with someone whom I know because I could care less if a stranger gets his teeth knocked out by someone who finds it offensive. IMO it serves them right for either (a) using a word without knowing its meaning or (b) knowing its meaning and then using it anyway when you know it's a curse word.
See? I don't care if you're cool with using the word and you and your friends find it funny and I couldn't stop you from doing it if I did. But that doesn't mean that just because other Salvadorans are okay with it, I am. The same goes for the "N" word.
No, I do not speak for all people of color and nor do I want to. I'm passionate about the derogutory use of the word, but on the same hand I'm realistic about it being used. The U.S has an abundant amount of racist and that word is top of their limited vocabulary. This country also has an equally amount of ignorant people who think that it is fine to demean one another b/c "we can call each other that". What I'm saying is that the word will never disappear from this country as long as these two groups are present.
Now that being said, understand this there are some words that are used strictly to make a point and is not used to demean anyone. This is one of those cases. It just seems to me that the overly sensitive and people with limited understanding of the english language and it's usage are offended (in this case).
The indivdual who reported this man, who incidentally lost his job over this should have asked for an explaination if he/she was so offended or an apology if the explaination did not do, and not run to the dean and whine about it.
Well then why didn't he just use the word "slave"? Sorry, but the fact that he used the word along with plantation means that he was using the word to describe black people and that's how it's not supposed to be used. Having changed the definition over time does not mean that the origin is still not a malicious one. The word originally is a southern mispronounciation of the spanish word "negro" which was used to describe the dark skin of the Africans who were enslaved.
I once looked it up in an old (I think from the 70s) Webster's and the first definition that came up was "lazy". Now they've taken out that definition and started including "ignorant" as well as pointing out the fact that it is offensive.
Having said all that; I have not taken this man's class and I know nothing of him other than what was written in the article so I do not know if his "political incorrectness" disclaimer is trully a warning and he uses such phrases to make points or if it is simply an excuse to get away with using such phrases.
No, as far as I can see he was using BOTH terms as a metaphor to draw a parallel between the suffering of the negro people historically and what is currently happening in Western culture to ALL of us of a certain socio economic group, black, white and all the colours of the rainbow with regard to corporatization. As I read it, it's an acknowledgement that he perceives what happened then and is happening now as very bad.
It's too simplistic in my opinion to see the word or hear the word and only ever perceive its usage as a slur. It's even more simplistic to assume that anyone who does use it is racist OR that only certain people can use it.
The word exists. Granted its very existence came into being in very negative circumstances but one would think that when it is used in the way in which it was in this circumstance that people would be able to discern the difference before getting all up in arms and demanding censorship AND putting into motion a series of even more stupid reactions that ultimately will not result in a better understanding from anyone.
I'll also point out that there are people who would wish to take exclusive ownership of words like slave also and whilst all the silly bickering and offense over little things like language or words is going on bigger things are afoot that are largely going unnoticed.
It's ironic that someone who was attempting to point that out has now been effectively silenced because of one person who clearly thinks they have a god given right to be offended.
No, I do not speak for all people of color and nor do I want to. I'm passionate about the derogutory use of the word, but on the same hand I'm realistic about it being used. The U.S has an abundant amount of racist and that word is top of their limited vocabulary. This country also has an equally amount of ignorant people who think that it is fine to demean one another b/c "we can call each other that". What I'm saying is that the word will never disappear from this country as long as these two groups are present.
Now that being said, understand this there are some words that are used strictly to make a point and is not used to demean anyone. This is one of those cases. It just seems to me that the overly sensitive and people with limited understanding of the english language and it's usage are offended (in this case).
The indivdual who reported this man, who incidentally lost his job over this should have asked for an explaination if he/she was so offended or an apology if the explaination did not do, and not run to the dean and whine about it.
I really wish I could rep you more than I've been able to simetime.
You've made some excellent points in this thread and as I have to spread the reps around before I get back to you I figure this is the only other way to show my appreciation.
I'm certainly not saying that when racist invective is bandied about it shouldn't be corrected and there shouldn't be consequences but first we need to establish if that's what we're dealing with. I don't think that happened here and by allowing it to stand as is it's only perpetuating division.
You guys, come on. This is a no brainer. No one should say that word & everyone knows why we shouldn't say it. Why are people being so resistent to that idea? Because it's considered PC? OH NO'S! Jeez, common sense & respect for people tells you that that word should never be uttered.
It's "uttered" alot by young people in ways that having nothing to do with race. I often hear it being used by young guys the same way "bro" is used.
So even though many don't like it, that word isn't yours to ban anymore..
re the workplace
trust me-- many are hoping and praying you do you the N word-- you will now be over a barrel.
EEOC has been used as a weapon for 30 years.
Duh! I don't need your permission to use it! Black studies in college, you have to be kidding.
Go ahead then, do it!
But don't use it to your friends, go out and shout it on the corner.
Let us know how that worked out for you
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