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Just take a look at places like Iraq, the former Yugoslavia, or even the Soviet Union to understand exactly why multiculturalism doesn't work and never will.
So, we are to look to Iraq, Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union as exemplars of failed multiculturalism while blithely ignoring the legal, ethical, to say nothing of the historical framework, of those countries as opposed to those of the U.S or even of those countries' respective social developments. Yikes!
I think that's what the other poster ment by "divisive". Just gotta look at that here... Looks like it will never stop.
Oh, it will stop when stasis Americans are dead and in the grave. How do I know? I look at the approach of my African-Eastern-European-Jewish-American daughter and her friends who revel in their own cultural identities while talking like cretinous valley girls, enough to drive a father mad, the valley girl part that is.
Anyway divisiveness is necessary evil, we must debride the body politic of the scabrous remnants of monolithic ethnic superiority. It is a painful process, without which no future healing is possible.
It seems to me that one of the BIG bugaboos about multiculturalism is the perception, on the part of some white folks, that they are, for a change, being excluded. My point was that this is a false perception.
Well, white folks are indeed being excluded from various black clubs and organizations, in spirit if nothing else. All that would be fine (well, sort of), if there were no taboos on the white counterparts to those specifically black-oriented clubs, TV networks, etc. So no, it is not a false perception.
The other major issue for SOME white folks, particularly opponents of multiculturalism is that "their culture" is steadily being erode. This isn't a new phenomenon, Americans have railed against multiculturalism since the founding of the Republic, every immigrant group has been accused of not trying hard enough to fit into the very American society that fought tooth and nail not to accept them in the first place. It happened to Irish Catholics, the Italians, the Jews, the Eastern Europeans, the Chinese, and the Japanese and of course it always happened to black folks. Now we throw in hispanics, Arabs, and sprinkling of Muslims just to keep the continuum going. But through it all, all of these folks (please not the shout out... [strike that] inclusion of white ethnic minorities) adopted the majority culture and in the process transformed it while at the same time retaining vestiges of their original cultures. This is a good thing, and that is all that multiculturalism is about. Recognition of the value of America's diverse population and how it has made the U.S. the unique country that it is.
I am all for the eroding of contemporary mainstream culture by way of immigrants, blacks, Muslims, etc. However, I am not for these various demographics segregating themselves geographically and culturally. As I said to another poster, the racist David Duke is most assuredly all for multiculturalism.
The idea of integrating into each other's schools, clubs, etc is a tough pill to swallow. Dissolving white, male country clubs and black ski clubs can be traumatic. Fifty years ago Southern white folks had a helluva time giving up the notion of a white-only school for a handful of black students.
As a kind of footnote, I know a long-time civil rights activist who fought for integration in housing, business, and schools, thinking that, separate really did mean unequal. He believed that people who challenged his viewpoint were racist. Ironically, now on occasion he has been labeled a racist, though his viewpoints remain the same.
Oh, it will stop when stasis Americans are dead and in the grave. How do I know? I look at the approach of my African-Eastern-European-Jewish-American daughter and her friends who revel in their own cultural identities while talking like cretinous valley girls, enough to drive a father mad, the valley girl part that is.
Anyway divisiveness is necessary evil, we must debride the body politic of the scabrous remnants of monolithic ethnic superiority. It is a painful process, without which no future healing is possible.
No, it's not just Americans. Lots of immigrants only embrace their own culture and nothing else.
Well, white folks are indeed being excluded from various black clubs and organizations,
Such as?
Quote:
in spirit if nothing else.
Please go on...
Quote:
TV networks,
I hope and pray that you are referring to BET (and obviously you are since that is the only one) which is owned and operated by Viacom!!
Quote:
So no, it is not a false perception.
Your are right, based upon what you've written above it is a delusion!
Quote:
However, I am not for these various demographics segregating themselves geographically and culturally. As I said to another poster, the racist David Duke is most assuredly all for multiculturalism.
Do you carry this fight to all those white flight suburbs... but I digress.
I am dying to know where you get this insistent view that multiculturalism is responsible for ethnic and racial segregation since by definition it is the exact opposite of the words meaning.
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Dissolving white, male country clubs
I don't have a problem with white only male country clubs, if they are private, it ain't my business or concern.
Quote:
As a kind of footnote, I know a long-time civil rights activist who fought for integration in housing, business, and schools, thinking that, separate really did mean unequal. He believed that people who challenged his viewpoint were racist. Ironically, now on occasion he has been labeled a racist, though his viewpoints remain the same.
Obviously we are speaking three different languages. '
Just another counter footnote, even in the area with vigorous enforcement of fair housing laws, there is nothing ahistoric about immigrants with deficient language skills, dietary requirements, and access to alternative forms of business financing to concentrate in urban areas. This has been the historical pattern throughout U.S. history. Without such housing patterns, many immigrants simply do not have the support systems by which to even begin entering the mainstream, but that is not a by product of multiculturalism, that is a by product of social and economic necessity.
What I do not want is for whites, blacks, Hispanics, and various Asian minorities to live in separate neighborhoods, with separate organizations, clubs, and forms of media, only interacting when necessary, and then doing so grudgingly.
It's already like that in many places across the U.S. LoL.
Multiculturalism, like diversity, is one of those concepts that sound great in theory, but in practice still leaves alot to be desired.
Right, but excluding others who aren't white could have the connotation of it. Don't you think? That's been the problem to begin with.
Why weren't the Mexican or Chinese ladies not invited or welcomed to the Sewing club? Wouldn't they enjoy it as much as granny?
That's where things went wrong; excluding a group because of skin color, or cultural difference, etc.
Great Post. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed. Well Said.
Stop looking at the script.
No one is stopping you from being American, and don't stop the Chinese, Mexican, Vietnamese etc from being who they are. Let them be.
What's the big deal? The energy and time you're wasting telling us this, could be used to be a better American.
I can't stand people who have a problem with other cultures being theirs (even in this country), while they themselves want to enjoy their own. Contradiction at its best.
Imagine us, not being able to get a good Pizza or Chinese food, because we just want everything American. (You know Pizza is Italian, right? )
Can't have Sushi, or German Beer? Why not? It's not American.
Rubbish....
All I'm saying is: Enjoy the Variety. If you don't like it, Fine. But I'll be damned if I don't get my Pizza, Taco or Shrimp Fried rice from time to time.
Before you lecture me on american culture.............go back and read what I said.
I said I didn't want to be Mexican, Chinese.etc etc.etc.............
Nothing I said could be denigrated as reflecting badly on any other culture.....I said I liked mine fine.............The examples you than list, regarding not having sushi.....rubbish yourself...........your providing a straw man argument.............................
Yes I know pizza is Italian, I havent been living like Jarrod...........
And your aware that Taco Bell isnt really mexican cuziane.......right...pizanno
Unless you spend 100% of your life indoors, you will note that within a given group of people who self-identify as being of one race, there are multiple cultures: urban v. rural, loud vs. quiet, rich v. poor, educated vs. not, well traveled vs. not, immoral vs. not.
the trick in life is to find people of your own culture even though they may be of a different color or language or nationality.
What I find is the self-professed anti-multiculturalists are simply "anti," while the pro-multiculturalists wish to force everyone to accept their own views. Both are wrong.
Take Northern Idaho. A place that is 95%+ White and labeled from the outside by many who like their worlds to be simple: White Supremacist Backwater vs. White Paradise. Yet anyone who actually lives here will find a place where a number of mini-cultures move about and pretty much coexist, not perfectly but well enough to keep life pretty free compared to the rest of the US and indeed the world.
Among my friends is such an eclectic and motley crew of people spanning a number of races, nationalities and ethnicities. Despite our differences as individuals, there is something there that causes our lives to overlap. That core of overlap that exists among our friends is our culture. It is but one culture of Sandpoint and NID.
And when I look around and interact with neighbors and acquaintances, I can see that there are other cultures, sets of rules and values that bind them together that are different than mine. Far more often than not, I learn when I interact with them and hopefully they from me. Overtime, the members of my culture grows. And perhaps they see the same expansion of their culture.
I think as long as we recognize that we are not all the same we implicitly negotiate a truce. Where the pro-multicultural movement fails miserably is to impose on everyone one truth and to assume that there is one truth. And where the anti-multicultural movement fails is in not recognizing that human beings develop bonds across the different cultures and that even within a given group that appears homogeneous we seek out our own culture.
Unless you spend 100% of your life indoors, you will note that within a given group of people who self-identify as being of one race, there are multiple cultures: urban v. rural, loud vs. quiet, rich v. poor, educated vs. not, well traveled vs. not, immoral vs. not.
the trick in life is to find people of your own culture even though they may be of a different color or language or nationality.
What I find is the self-professed anti-multiculturalists are simply "anti," while the pro-multiculturalists wish to force everyone to accept their own views. Both are wrong.
Take Northern Idaho. A place that is 95%+ White and labeled from the outside by many who like their worlds to be simple: White Supremacist Backwater vs. White Paradise. Yet anyone who actually lives here will find a place where a number of mini-cultures move about and pretty much coexist, not perfectly but well enough to keep life pretty free compared to the rest of the US and indeed the world.
Among my friends is such an eclectic and motley crew of people spanning a number of races, nationalities and ethnicities. Despite our differences as individuals, there is something there that causes our lives to overlap. That core of overlap that exists among our friends is our culture. It is but one culture of Sandpoint and NID.
And when I look around and interact with neighbors and acquaintances, I can see that there are other cultures, sets of rules and values that bind them together that are different than mine. Far more often than not, I learn when I interact with them and hopefully they from me. Overtime, the members of my culture grows. And perhaps they see the same expansion of their culture.
I think as long as we recognize that we are not all the same we implicitly negotiate a truce. Where the pro-multicultural movement fails miserably is to impose on everyone one truth and to assume that there is one truth. And where the anti-multicultural movement fails is in not recognizing that human beings develop bonds across the different cultures and that even within a given group that appears homogeneous we seek out our own culture.
S.
It seems to me that multiculturalism asserts that there are multiple truths.
Before you lecture me on american culture.............go back and read what I said.
I said I didn't want to be Mexican, Chinese.etc etc.etc.............
Nothing I said could be denigrated as reflecting badly on any other culture.....I said I liked mine fine.............The examples you than list, regarding not having sushi.....rubbish yourself...........your providing a straw man argument.............................
Yes I know pizza is Italian, I havent been living like Jarrod...........
And your aware that Taco Bell isnt really mexican cuziane.......right...pizanno
I did, so you go back and read what you said.
And I know Taco Bell is not Mexican. When did I ever say it was? You just proved you're the one who can't read.
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Please go on...
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