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The people aren't idiots, many do not want their boat rocked. Whether they work for the Fed or large businesses with good benefits or old folks who feel they've earned theirs so don't mess with it. That's why there is a disconnect.
I agree that this is why there is a disconnect. Many people with benefits through their employer don't realize that government regulations have ensured that they and their pre-existing conditions will be covered through their large group plan. But, I don't see many people yelling about that.
I don't know why you think it's ok to lie about a statistic that can be easily proved false, but you malign a large segment of the American population. We are all Americans and this is our country.
We are not a majority rule nation. Rather, our representatives take oaths to research and debate issues that come up and to make decisions based on their research. They do not have to vote the way their constituents want them to, and I think that's part of the problem. But the constituents have the final say at the polls.
A consistent line from the Republicans has been that this bill went against the "will of the people". This line was always a bit stupid as congressmen/women are suppose to serve their constituents not the nation as a whole and they largely did just that. But it ends up that the nation as a whole supports the health care bill as well (49% vs 40%):
What is funny is that people over 65 were least supportive, yet it is these people that are largely on a government run health care system.
The over 65 crowd is afraid that the Republican lies about Medicare cutbacks, is true. But the Repubs are very careful imply an impact on services, not point any out, because there aren't any of significance. Medicare will have cutbacks, to Private Ins, waste, inefficiency, etc., not to services. But they have not come to understand that yet, as the Repubs continue to say they will. As they realize that the GOP fear spreading about that, was a lie as well, you will see their support increase as well. The Admin and the Dems in Congress will continue to let them know the truth. However, there will always be a number of people who, for some strange reason, want to believe the lies. I am sure there have been studies on why people are so inclined. If I had an interest in why they do that, I suppose I would look into the studies, but, I don't. I am quite sure that ALL politicians have looked deeply into those studies.
Absolutely. What's also ridiculous is that "the will of the people" kicked Republicans out in 2006 and 2008. Democrats are just doing what their constituents elected them to do.
If Republicans are unhappy, perhaps they should stop with the hysterics and the name-calling, and focus on the November elections. They can win, but not if their behavior turns off moderate Americans throughout the next few months. They look like childish sore losers right now.
Let me see if I understand. You say republicans stop with the hysterics and name calling and then you reort to name calling, "childress sore losers".
Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black, to me.
Every poll prior to the vote showd the american people were against this bill. So how was voting for the bill representing the people?
That's very suprising you hold a degree to me. Because of all the right wing posters here I would lump you in with the biggest group that doesn't know much about the issues. You're great at reciting right wing story lines. But when it comes to details about issues you are absent. Maybe you are not as sharp as you once were?
Hmm.. funny. Me and roysoldboy agree on just about everything, and I too hold a bachelors degree in Architecture, and am very involved and up to date on current political trends and ideas.
I will also note that you didn't answer the question about your "education" level.
Maybe this is the problem padcrasher. Maybe you think that anybody that doesn't agree with your point of view must certainly be a right-wing, religious freak, hitting people at tea party protests over the head with bibles, screaming about abortion.
You sir, are the one that seems a bit out of touch with reality.
When my parents, and grandparents got medical and Social security, I never though of them as spongers. Do any of you think of your elderly relatives, and friends as "spongers" and "drains" on the system ? Did women work a long time to earn something from the government, even if they did nothing "more" than raise a few decent people, and never held a "real" job ?
All the industries you listed have been regulated for decades, additionally there is a big different between an industry being regulated and an industry being run by the government. The size of the government as a percentage of total GDP has been very consistent over the last 50 years. It has moved between around 18%~22% of total GDP, the current health care bill will increase this figure by around 1%.
May I suggest you actually read about socialism? Socialism is really a set of philosophies rather than a single ideology and "everyone works for the government" is not one of its tenets.
But this socialism boggy-man nonsense is irrelevant in the first place, the issue is how exactly we fix our health care system. Do you have any suggests on how to do this without regulation or government intervention?
I said I only had a minute. Now I'm back...
The 65% is a percentage that I pulled out of my hat as a rough estimate. Case in point below on industry now run by the government.
Fannie Mae
Banking
Auto Industry
Health Care
Student Loans
(what did I forget to list?)
Headline: Obama fires GM CEO in Government backed Union Coup
Headline: U.S. Takes control of Fannie and Freddie-MarketWatch
Headline: Barrack Obama Maintaines Control over Banks by Refusing to Accept
Headline: Government Takes Control of Student Loans Under Reconciliation ...
Headline: U.S. Clears Path to Bank Takeovers - washingtonpost.com
Obama's Revised Plan for Industry Aid Could Result in Nationalization ... taxpayer money could give the government majority control of many banks because their ... The government also could take a majority ownership stake in a company without ... No One Wants to Talk About U.S. Bank Nationalization.
I said we were going back to British rule. You said, People want to be ruled by a foreign monarchy?
You miss understood. We came from Great Britain to escape the governments control of all. Now...we are returning to our roots by allowing more government control.
You sent me to a link. Here is an excerpt from that page.
Quote:
Of course, the future path of the budget is highly uncertain and subject to wide variation. Except for the first 10 years, which is the period covered by the Congressional Budget Office's (CBO's) projection of a baseline, the path shown here is simply a representation based on an illustrative set of key assumptions.
Gotto love that word, assumption.
Another excerpt:
Quote:
1. The nature of future taxes and spending as well as the aggregate difference between them can affect the growth of the economy. For this analysis, however, no macroeconomic effects that might result from the fiscal policies reflected by the projections are considered.
That page told me a whole lot of nothing.
You also suggested I learn more about socialism so I did.
Quote:
Socialism in America Roots of socialism in America
The roots of socialism in America can be traced to the arrival of German immigrants in the 1850s when Marxian socialist unions began, such as the National Typographic Union in 1852, United Hatters of 1856, and Iron Moulders' Union of North America in 1859. Theodore H. White, author of Fire in the Ashes: Europe in Mid-Century (1953) wrote, "Socialism is the belief and the hope that by proper use of government power, men can be rescued from their helplessness in the wild cycling cruelty of depression and boom."
Remember folks, for every give there is a take back. How much are you willing to let them take back?
In a few years every American across the boarders will get a bill for Health Care that many did not ask for; did not subscribe to, but will be made to pay none-the-less. Not to mention if it is not paid there are consequences.
The majority of Americans 49% must be thrilled their private medical histories will be handled by the IRS and the Health Care Commission.
We are developing into a government run, government owned, down to the last purse strings, America. And the majority is okay with this...Oh, that's right it isn't what I think it is, every one working solely for the government. That houses and cars will all be government owned vehicles and dwellings we are allowed to reside in...no...That's Not Socialism--haven't I heard---It's all been redefined to mean something else entirely...it's just an ideal, not a government structure that in corporates the loss of freedoms.
I'm sorry I don't buy what others are selling, but I got to hand it to this administration. The American people had a nickle and they sold us another one, plus interest to boot. It's a proud moment. One that could be dated back to 1935. And so the course, began...for the future of their children and their children's children...why, that be us. The First SSN & The Lowest Number
Reform the Medicaid (or is it Medicare, I get the two confused) to increase
the help and to stop the abuse on over spending of the program(s).
You do realize that both medicare and medicaid (two separate things btw) are socialized systems right? Reducing the costs of these systems will do nothing to fix the issues with general health care. Medicare is for people over 65 and medicaid is for people in poverty. What about the middle-class family that can't get health care for their kids because one of them has a pre-existing condition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell
Question on socialism, so Germany under Hitler was not socialism?
No, it was not. Perhaps you should...you know...actually read about socialism? Even if you disagree, I'm sure you'll find that its not this big evil plot to destroy the world.
The 65% is a percentage that I pulled out of my hat as a rough estimate.
It was not an estimate at all, you completely made it up. The Government does not own the auto industry, banking industry etc. The Government has given loans to these industries that it hopes get paid back.
It seems like you don't understand the details of what is going on. Sadly there are a lot of people that don't want you to understand the details either...you're just falling into their trap.
Your comments about the health care bill are all inaccurate. Let me know if you want to know the reality of the situation, there is little to debate when the facts are being distorted.
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