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View Poll Results: Should laid off or working poor, uninsured Americans be denied chemotherapy?
Yes 5 7.04%
No 66 92.96%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-26-2010, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,588 posts, read 84,818,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest View Post
I think people are crazy to take chemotherapy. Is there any evidence that it works? I mean is something that makes your hair fall out good for you? And don't you have to sigen a disclaimer saying you understand that the chemo may kill you? Not the cancer, but the chemo itself.

Here's one link I found about chemo.

The Quackery of Chemotherapy, Gunpoint Medicine and the Disturbing Fate of 13-Year-Old Daniel Hauser

Seems to me if people don't engage in behavior that causes cancer then there is a strong likelihood they won't get cancer. Sort of like diabetics. Don't eat crap that causes diabetes and you probably ain't gonna get it.
Yes, there is evidence that it works. There are just so many different cancers that some respond and some don't. Chemotherapy simply means drug therapy, and not all chemo is the same. There are different drug combinations used for different cancers. My friend with the NHL had five different drugs in her chemo.

One of the drugs that's used in all or nearly all cancer treatments targets and kills cells at the point in their life that they are dividing. Rapidly dividing and growing is the very hallmark of cancer cells--it's much of what defines cancer and makes it a problem. Most normal human cells do not divide and reproduce that quickly. Exceptions to that are hair cells and certain cells in the stomach. That is why your hair falls out and you experience nausea during chemotherapy.

It's silly to imply that you can prevent all cancer by behavior. Obviously, smoking is linked to cancer, but many cancers, such as NHL, have no known cause.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest View Post
Do yuo have any links to that? I'm just wondering because I've never seen anything.

What's naive about thinking a healthy lifestyle would keep someone from getting cancer? Do you suggest we all smoke 2 packs a day and shoot up some herion?

Do you even know how people get cancer? Or do you just think it is something that happens to people regardless of their behavior?

And there is pretty strong evidence that eating spirulina and chlorella will prevent cancer. Cures it too. Those are blue green algaes.

When the dentist gives people large amounts of mercury they tell the patient to take large amounts chlorella. It rids the body of the excess mercury. It works as a detoxifier, if you will.
The cemeteries are full of dead cancer patients who never smoked and lived healthy lifestyles.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Columbus
4,877 posts, read 4,508,466 times
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I just read in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that a Medeterrainian diet reduces the chance of stomach cancer.

How 'bout that.

Last edited by OhioIstheBest; 03-26-2010 at 09:27 PM..
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:19 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,867,563 times
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I have a freind who had cancer and just died. hehad no insurance and was treated without payment. It was not free because large supporters of the hospital and government have always funded this. No no0thing is free but it was to him.I just watched PBS program that said that most will not be insrued until 2014 and that 15 million will still not be insured by 2019 by CBO estiates who work for congress.What they are wroiied about is people ith money stopping conmtributions that support much of the funding because they pay taxes to the new system and will leave it to government alone which is a drop in the bucket.I say call Obama and ak what he is going to do;its his plan.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,588 posts, read 84,818,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest View Post
I just read in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that a Medeterrainian diet reduces the chance of stomach cancer.

Hoe 'bout that.
No one is arguing that a healthy diet doesn't reduce the risk. It does not, however, guarantee that you will never get cancer, just as some people smoke and eat crap all their lives and never get cancer.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Columbus
4,877 posts, read 4,508,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Yes, there is evidence that it works. There are just so many different cancers that some respond and some don't. Chemotherapy simply means drug therapy, and not all chemo is the same. There are different drug combinations used for different cancers. My friend with the NHL had five different drugs in her chemo.

One of the drugs that's used in all or nearly all cancer treatments targets and kills cells at the point in their life that they are dividing. Rapidly dividing and growing is the very hallmark of cancer cells--it's much of what defines cancer and makes it a problem. Most normal human cells do not divide and reproduce that quickly. Exceptions to that are hair cells and certain cells in the stomach. That is why your hair falls out and you experience nausea during chemotherapy.

It's silly to imply that you can prevent all cancer by behavior. Obviously, smoking is linked to cancer, but many cancers, such as NHL, have no known cause.
I didn't mean to imply all cancer. True some have no known cause. And some hit young kids for no apparent reason.

If you eat the right foods and avoid behavior that causes cancer it is likely that your body will be able to fight off cancer cells in the first place. No need to put that poison in your body and call it "treatment"

And most normal "treatments" wouldn't cause your hair to fall out. I think chemo is nothing more than a scam to make money.

How many other "treatments" can kill you? Not the cancer. The chemo itself can kill you. You have to sign a wavier acknowliedging that the "cure" might kill you.

How many billions and billions of dollars have been given to find a "cure" for cancer? And for what? The cancer rates in this country are not going down. How long have we been fighting the "war" on cancer? And what kind of results are we getting?
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Columbus
4,877 posts, read 4,508,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
No one is arguing that a healthy diet doesn't reduce the risk. It does not, however, guarantee that you will never get cancer, just as some people smoke and eat crap all their lives and never get cancer.

I never said it guarantees anything. You are just reading what you want to apparently.

And yeah, someone earlier said a healthy lifestyle will do nothing to stop cancer.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Columbus
4,877 posts, read 4,508,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I have a freind who had cancer and just died. hehad no insurance and was treated without payment. It was not free because large supporters of the hospital and government have always funded this. No no0thing is free but it was to him.I just watched PBS program that said that most will not be insrued until 2014 and that 15 million will still not be insured by 2019 by CBO estiates who work for congress.What they are wroiied about is people ith money stopping conmtributions that support much of the funding because they pay taxes to the new system and will leave it to government alone which is a drop in the bucket.I say call Obama and ak what he is going to do;its his plan.

Sorry about your friend.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:43 PM
GLS
 
1,985 posts, read 5,380,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brattpowered View Post
Question: Should a cancer patient without private insurance (due to not being offered at their job), Medicare (for the old and disabled), or Medicaid (for the abject poor), be denied lifesaving chemotherapy treatments due to an inability to pay?

This is the situation for many people that work full, 40 hour weeks and make an honest contribution to our society. Many have done everything right and have gone through a hard streak, and may be working at the convenience store after losing a manufacturing job. Cancers are growing and people are dying.

A lot of people on the right say that we pay for care in the emergency room anyway, but have you seen a chemo ward where people can get daily treatments in an ER?

Let's know where you stand.
I live each day as a painful philosophical paradox, being a Libertarian health care provider. However, as much as I believe people should take personal responsibility for their own care, I would never deny treatment based upon an inability to pay. If a patient is sincerely trying to participate in their own treatment plan and they make a genuine effort trying to help pay for it, then we should absorb the cost difference.

However, don't mistake my oath to care for patients with a "bleeding heart". I still have trouble with patients who are lazy, who have given up on themselves, and who out of selfishness, exacerbate their own disease.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,588 posts, read 84,818,250 times
Reputation: 115120
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest View Post
I didn't mean to imply all cancer. True some have no known cause. And some hit young kids for no apparent reason.

If you eat the right foods and avoid behavior that causes cancer it is likely that your body will be able to fight off cancer cells in the first place. No need to put that poison in your body and call it "treatment"

And most normal "treatments" wouldn't cause your hair to fall out. I think chemo is nothing more than a scam to make money.

How many other "treatments" can kill you? Not the cancer. The chemo itself can kill you. You have to sign a wavier acknowliedging that the "cure" might kill you.

How many billions and billions of dollars have been given to find a "cure" for cancer? And for what? The cancer rates in this country are not going down. How long have we been fighting the "war" on cancer? And what kind of results are we getting?
Well, yeah, sometimes there IS a need to put that poison in your body and call it "treatment". My friend with the NHL would now be dead if she hadn't had chemo. The only reason she found out she had it in the first place is that her leg began to swell and she was in extreme pain. The skin was stretched so tight that it look as if it might split. The cause was the tumor in her illiac region (inside the pelvic) that was cutting off the circulation to the leg and her leg was filling with fluid. The leg was back to almost normal size within days after her first treatment because the tumor had shrunk. Of course, lymphoma is throughout the body, as you have about 700 lymph nodes and it's part of the circulatory system. She has other tumors all throughout her body, including around her lungs, but the illiac tumor was the largest.

She's not cured by the way, and never will be. The chemo killed the aggressive cancer cells, but the base cancer is a slow-growing form that chemo cannot kill. Most people with that type of NHL live ten to fifteen years after treatment, but all the studies have been done on people 60 and over. She is 47. She had her chemo in 2005, and as of yet, the aggressive stage cancer has not returned.

Technically, all drugs are poison anyway. It's just a matter of what the dosage is for the poison to kill the disease and not kill the person.
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