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Old 04-01-2010, 09:49 PM
 
29,983 posts, read 42,542,990 times
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I think the Governors are going to go ahead and mobilize their available NG troops soon. The violence is only escalating and there is also a real problem of Mexican children being targeted in schools now by the drug cartels taking over. There will be refugees who would not normally try to cross the border illegally. These folks will need help and need to be processed according to the law as legitimate refugees rather than slipping in the way the illegals have done.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Nevada
2,071 posts, read 6,639,865 times
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Trust me. I know first hand the Illegal gang situation is much,much worse and dangerous then being reported by our very lame weak American media. More Americans will perish if we dont head down there and wipe out the Mexican Drug cartel by force.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:43 PM
 
47,528 posts, read 69,005,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Positiveone View Post
Trust me. I know first hand the Illegal gang situation is much,much worse and dangerous then being reported by our very lame weak American media. More Americans will perish if we dont head down there and wipe out the Mexican Drug cartel by force.
And when you send our troops to Mexico, how are they going to know who to shoot? How will they tell who is good and who is bad? And what happens if US military is inside Mexico killing Mexican citizens who are in their own country?
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:51 PM
 
47,528 posts, read 69,005,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Nor do you know anything about this situation except what Fox News has burped up for you.

But here's what I see:
You latch onto the tagline "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT COMMITS CRIME" and your blood boils at the idea of some mexican who shouldn't have been here killing a man who was a "good samaritan" patriotically defending the border (since he was a white Arizona rancher, what else could he be?) Meanwhile hundreds of other people across the country were murdered on the same day in every imaginable circumstance, but do they provoke the same reaction from you? I guess not.

Then, looking for someone to blame, you don't look for the logical suspects, you blame the damn puppet president of the United States for the entire situation!

Strangely enough in the fine print, Fox admits no one knows the actual legal status of the perpetrator or who he/she/it even is. All they know is there was a set of tracks going back toward Mexico, which would be unusual for someone who is supposedly immigrating illegally to a better life in America where they can have a bunch of kids, mooch on welfare and open a dog meat taco stand.

So you played the pawn and helped Fox News spin more fuel for the fire. Don't buy the propaganda. Preconceived judgements are the first step down the slippery slope to racism.
The other poster does know obviously -- it's you who has your head in the sand. You're freaked out about something being reported on Fox News and just because your MSNBC and CNN don't choose to report what's going on doesn't mean it's not going on.

This isn't Fox News:

EL VALLE DE JUÁREZ CRUCIFICADO*|*La Polaka (http://lapolaka.com/2010/03/31/el-valle-de-juarez-crucificado/ - broken link)

Again -- just because the liberal media sources aren't reporting on border events doesn't mean it's all calm and peaceful, no problems.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:55 PM
 
47,528 posts, read 69,005,939 times
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Originally Posted by Positiveone View Post
Wrong! Fox news like CNN is crap! Yes I used Fox's link for info, so what! I know first hand on the Illegal situation, especially in Las Vegas & Arizona, i worked on many of those cases. In my 15-16 yrs in Vegas the Illegal Gang situation has gotten much, much worse. More violent. Younger member's joining daily. Majority Illegals! That word Illegal tells the entire story. Sad thing is that our leaders, nationwide and State are covering up how bad it really is.

Rid of the Illegals. Come on obama stop following every other past President and show us some real Hope and Change! Secure the border! Make an example out of the illegals in general! And the Drug Cartel that cross in to America- why not take them out? whats the negative to that?

Sad, lazy, lame liberals!
The only people who would claim otherwise are not keeping up with events taking place along the border in Mexico.

To claim that only hard working cleaning ladies and yardboys might be crossing over that border is ridiculous beyond belief. Juarez - right on the border is now the most dangerous city in the world and thousands of people from Juarez are coming over to escape what looks like total break down in their city -- and it isn't total break down but getting close. The gangs are coming right on over with all the rest.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:01 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,320 posts, read 22,154,123 times
Reputation: 18436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Positiveone View Post
When will obama step up and show his power? Like Trash Bush, lame liberal obama wont even touch these disgusting illegals who rein terror on Americans! An American is killed. What does obama do? Nada! Nothing! He always was and always will be trash!!

Vote these lame, lazy liberals out this year! Take out obama in 2012! Who does he work for? America or the Illegals?

FOXNews.com - Illegal Immigrant Suspected in Murder of Arizona Rancher
Even if President Obama went medieval on the illegals and eliminated them completely from this country, you still would find fault in our great President. All the while ignoring the 8 years that your village idiot leader did nothing on this front.

President Obama will eventually get to this problem and resolve it and your view of him and liberals is very, very, I repeat very irrelevant.

In fact, President Obama probably working this problem in a methodical fashion, crafting an effective solution as I write this...and don't you forget it.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,053 posts, read 83,617,612 times
Reputation: 27714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
President Obama will eventually get to this problem and resolve it and your view of him and liberals is very, very, I repeat very irrelevant.

In fact, President Obama probably working this problem in a methodical fashion, crafting an effective solution as I write this...and don't you forget it.
Yes he is working on it. He sent border agents from the Mexican border up to the Canadian border. Strategic move ?????
CNSNews.com - Administration Will Cut Border Patrol Deployed on U.S-Mexico Border (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/54514 - broken link)

And he cut border security in the budget. Another strategic move ???
President Cuts Border Security in Proposed Budget
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:22 PM
 
47,528 posts, read 69,005,939 times
Reputation: 22454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
Even if President Obama went medieval on the illegals and eliminated them completely from this country, you still would find fault in our great President. All the while ignoring the 8 years that your village idiot leader did nothing on this front.

President Obama will eventually get to this problem and resolve it and your view of him and liberals is very, very, I repeat very irrelevant.

In fact, President Obama probably working this problem in a methodical fashion, crafting an effective solution as I write this...and don't you forget it.
Eventually will be too late.

Obama is ignoring a fast developing situation - things are going from bad to much worse by the day.

Why do you suppose Obama chooses to look the other way when it's close to anarchy right on the border and it looks like it's getting closer to all out civil war?

Yes, we all know Bush handled things all wrong, the cartels took even more control over the border itself under Bush but Obama's been in for well over a year now and as far as Mexico, he's completely asleep at the wheel.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:25 PM
 
Location: SARASOTA, FLORIDA
11,486 posts, read 15,149,257 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Yes he is working on it. He sent border agents from the Mexican border up to the Canadian border. Strategic move ?????
CNSNews.com - Administration Will Cut Border Patrol Deployed on U.S-Mexico Border (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/54514 - broken link)

And he cut border security in the budget. Another strategic move ???
President Cuts Border Security in Proposed Budget

Them dang Canadians are our problem with their gangs, waving their flags in our country, stealing, raping, robbing, driving without licenses etc etc etc.

We need to rush all border patrol agents up to the Canadian border right away.

Sure it is a strategic move, a move to make us weak along the border we need to completely shut down, no one in and no one out unless they go in one small area that can be man powered with military might.

This is getting out of control and the nitwit in the WH is making things worse.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,847 posts, read 2,443,972 times
Reputation: 1769

Abuses Suffered by Illegal Aliens at Mexico's Southern Border
Aliens, their embassies, nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), international agencies, and Mexico’s migrant-protection Beta Groups find that most abuses suffered by immigrants entering Mexico take place along its 600-mile border with Guatemala, with far fewer crimes committed on the frontier between Quintana Roo and Belize. That the army, which is more professional than most Mexican police forces, makes most of the arrests in Quintana Roo (where it is deployed to combat drug trafficking) may explain the lower incidence of wrongdoing in this state. Still, the region is awash in newcomers. For example, tens of thousands of illegal aliens perform construction work in the Tulum-Cancun "Maya Rivera" in Quintana Roo.7 (http://www.cis.org/%E2%80%9D#7%E2%80%9D - broken link)
A study conducted in the Tenosique area of Chiapas found that three groups — criminals (47.5 percent), the local Public Security police (15.2 percent), and migration agents (15.2 percent) — accounted for most of the mistreatment of immigrants arriving in Mexico from Central America8 (http://www.cis.org/%E2%80%9D#8%E2%80%9D - broken link) mainly along the new El Naranjo-El Ceibo-Tenosique highway. Further south in Chiapas — in the Tapachula, Puerto Madero, Ciudad Hidalgo, and Soconusco region — charges have frequently been leveled against plantation, or finca, owners for exploiting Guatemalan guestworkers, known as jornaleros or braceros, who work on their vast ranches.
The 100 or more criminal bands who prey on migrants run the gamut from petty thugs to small-scale smugglers (coyotes) to mafia-style squads to vicious street gangs. Even minor smuggling operations depend on a network of contacts that reach from the immigrants’ home countries to American cities and towns, the promised land for most Central Americans and other foreigners who seek access to Mexico. It is estimated that individual coyotes, who charge $5,000 or more to guide one person 1,500 miles from Central America to the United States, can earn as much as $100,000 per year — an amount almost as large as that paid by single Mideasterners or Asians to reach the United States.9 (http://www.cis.org/%E2%80%9D#9%E2%80%9D - broken link) Meanwhile, professional criminal organizations — some of them headquartered in China, Korea, or the Philippines — can amass Croesus-class fortunes. Experts assert that the smuggling of humans is the most lucrative illegal activity in Mexico after narcotrafficking and commerce in stolen automobiles.10 (http://www.cis.org/%E2%80%9D#10%E2%80%9D - broken link)
The most notorious street gangs, often compared to the Crips and the Bloods of Los Angeles, are the Mara Salvatruchas, composed chiefly of former members of the Salvadoran army who have been deported from Los Angeles and other American cities. These tattooed hoodlums are especially adept at assaulting and robbing newcomers who hide in freight and tanker cars on trains that run from Tapachula through Oaxaca to Veracruz. The Mara Salvatruchas, who prize themselves as "migrant hunters," lie in wait for indocumentados when they jump off the slow-moving trains as they approach checkpoints. These bloodthirsty desperados also carry out car thefts and kidnappings, according to an immigrant-aid committee headed by Bishop Felipe Arizmendi Ezquivel.11 (http://www.cis.org/%E2%80%9D#11%E2%80%9D - broken link)
Rather than engage in crude violence, unscrupulous officials typically exact bribes or mordidas. The payments may be a few dollars to allow a single person to transit the border or thousands of dollars to permit the passage of drugs, weapons, stolen automobiles, prostitutes, exotic animals, or archeological artifacts. Individuals and professional smugglers often endure shakedowns from both Mexican and Guatemalan officials before encountering private-sector bandits. The presence in El Carmen, Guatemala — just across the bridge from Talisman, Mexico, and a stone’s throw from a Guatemalan immigration post — of a large, open lot packed with vehicles bearing California, Texas, and Arizona license tags highlights the impunity with which malefactors carry out their trade. Equally visible from the bridge joining Ciudad Hidalgo, Mexico, and Tecún Umán, Guatemala, are the ubiquitous balsas, boards perched on truck tires that serve as precarious ferries for migrants and locals willing to pay a few pesos to cross the narrow, slow-moving Suchiate river. The largest number of complaints of wrongdoing in Guatemala are lodged against that country’s National Civil Police (PNC), believed to be even more corrupt than Mexican authorities.12 (http://www.cis.org/%E2%80%9D#12%E2%80%9D - broken link)
Chiapan finca owners are frequently in the news, notably in the Tapachula and Guatemala City press, for their Simon Legree-like care of workers. The wealthy growers prefer Guatemalans over Mexicans to work on their plantations, where they raise mangos, bananas, coffee, and dozens of other crops in the fertile, steamy ambiance of southern Chiapas. Echoing U.S. employers’ claims about Americans, these finqueros insist that Mexicans will not do the hard work of planting, cultivating, and picking. The ranchers have two options when hiring Guatemalan jornaleros. They may take advantage of a program operated jointly by the Mexican and Guatemalan labor ministries13 (http://www.cis.org/%E2%80%9D#13%E2%80%9D - broken link) or they can contract workers directly from makeshift employment offices in Tecún Umán, a rapidly-growing town called "little Tijuana" because of its ubiquitous prostitution and unbridled lawlessness.14 (http://www.cis.org/%E2%80%9D#14%E2%80%9D - broken link) The finca owners accomplish the overwhelming number of their 150,000 annual hires through private channels. A typical contract will specify the employment of 10 to 20 "temporary migrant workers" to harvest coffee or mangos for 30 days at $3.85 (35 pesos) per day.15 (http://www.cis.org/%E2%80%9D#15%E2%80%9D - broken link)
This approach allows them to pay rates at or below the $4.21 (38.30 pesos) official minimum wage. Although the daily compensation may sometimes be slightly higher, the amounts specified on the three contracts in the author’s possession vary between $3.52 (32 pesos) and $3.85 (35 pesos) — with ranchers seldom if ever paying the workers’ social security, year-end bonuses (aguinaldos), and other benefits. Even worse, some finca owners deduct from the paltry wages the cost of the two rudimentary daily meals and rustic housing furnished to most workers. The horrendous poverty and unemployment in Guatemala, especially in the departments of San Marcos, Huehuetenango, and Retalhuleu that lie cheek by jowl with Chiapas, ensures an abundance of men ready to accept these deplorable conditions.
Guatemalan Vice Consul Erick Rodolfo Herrera Mata has urged Mexican authorities to investigate other abuses — specifically, charges that some of his countrymen were hired to work on the nonexistent "El Chaparral" ranch. Instead, they were trucked to banana plantations where, despite dawn-to-dusk labor, they were never paid the promised $3.96 (36 pesos) per day. Not only did they fail to receive compensation for three months, but the growers allegedly stopped feeding some braceros.16 (http://www.cis.org/%E2%80%9D#16%E2%80%9D - broken link) Bribes, intimidation, and political pressure ensure that Labor Ministry and Social Security inspectors steer clear of these farms, lest they "make waves," in the words of one former high-level Mexican policy maker who asked to remain anonymous.
Should an intrepid jornalero dare to report abuses to a state labor tribunal, Central American diplomats relate that he must (a) take time from work to file his grievance, (b) return approximately a week later to find out the court’s response to his claim, and (c) personally deliver any tribunal-issued summons to the rancher, who may be surrounded by armed bodyguards. A finca owner must receive at least three summonses before the court will require him to appear, and — with delays, continuances, and red tape — it is almost certain that the jornalero will either have withdrawn his petition under duress, completed his contract, or been sent packing before the hearing date.
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