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Old 04-02-2010, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
20,282 posts, read 20,922,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
Annabel Park has never made a secret of the fact that she was an unpaid volunteer for the Obama campaign. It's right on her website. And how does this discredit her in anyway?
The claim is that the "Coffee Party" is non-partisan. It most certainly is not. They're not interested in "working together", they're only interested in convincing anybody opposed to the Democrat agenda to switch their position.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:11 AM
 
1,503 posts, read 1,047,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
The claim is that the "Coffee Party" is non-partisan. It most certainly is not. They're not interested in "working together", they're only interested in convincing anybody opposed to the Democrat agenda to switch their position.
That "thinking" bit tipped you off didn't it?
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: 38°14′45″N 122°37′53″W
4,152 posts, read 10,482,238 times
Reputation: 3429
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsldcd View Post
COFFEE PARTY MINIONHOOD: The Coffee Party Movement mimics the voice of hussein obama who demands to see subjugation of all people and to his every command. We recognize that the federal government is not the enemy of the people, but the owner of the people. The One is the messiah of our collective thought, and that we must participate and obey in the socialist process in order to address the challenges that we face as slaves. As sheep and paid volunteers, we will support dear leaders who work toward destructive solutions, and hold accountable those who obstruct that destruction.

Just because you think this doesn't make it true.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Location: 38°14′45″N 122°37′53″W
4,152 posts, read 10,482,238 times
Reputation: 3429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea View Post
Its funny that the Coffee Party has vanished from the political radar even faster than anybody had thought it would.
LOL! The ones who seemingly "fall off the radar" are really the ones that will tend surprise you later.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:29 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,263,057 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
Are the members of the TEA movement willing to stand with those they disagree with? I've not seen any evidence of this.
It depends on the disagreement, if it is a disagreement concerning the very reason to which the movement stands (Constitutional authority, excessive taxation, etc...) then I do not see why they would. My issue is that the Coffee party says "We also believe in the Constitution..." and then goes on to explain their differences based on straw mans of their assessment of the Tea Party. I know I will stand with anyone in opposition to Government mandates and increased influence. I may disagree with them on various details to concerning social policies, but then if I am standing with them concerning the right to individual freedom, that concept specifically respects the difference in opinion.

If you really break it down to the core, by its very purpose (individual freedom) explains what a person can and can not do in terms of others. One can not support individual freedom, for instance in the case of free speech and then turn around and support infringement with social mandates. They defy individual freedom of choice, the fact that one may see the mandate as "good" is simply rationalizing oppression and at that point, it doesn't matter what the topic is, they are basically the same in their offense. The problem I see with some people is that they stand on both sides of the fence as it serves them and that in no way shape or form is a support for individual freedom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
Are you saying that all of that video evidence of the TEA members holding up disparaging signs and spewing foul-mouthed invective towards elected officials and others they disagree with are edited/dubbed/photo-shopped? If that is not the image that the TEA movement wants to present to the country, why then do they go to such lengths to provide fuel for those fires?
In terms of basic poor behavior, this is consistent as a matter of individual, not a reflection of a movement. So in such cases where it is evident, I think it honest to treat it as an individual incident and not a generalization of the whole. In fact, logical assessment dictates such.

Now I see you mention the congressman incident. There was nothing foul mouthed in this incident unless you consider "kill the bill" to be foul and it is disingenuous to suggest what the congressman did as it is obvious there were was no racist or derogatory remarks and the claim of "spitting" is logically a result of simply yelling if such was discharged in the first place.

What we do know is that several incidents have been shown to be false claims, attempts to discredit the Tea Party movement. We have seen numerous cases of partisan disgust, libel, slander, massive generalizations and accusations lobbied at the Tea Party movement. Has there been "some" and I honestly stress "some" improper behavior by individuals in the movement? Sure, but then statistically speaking the number of these incidents and the people related to them are statistically insignificant considering the whole. It would be malicious to suggest they are the movement as we can easily apply like assessment of any movement regardless of its position.

So do I think there is a mass conspiracy? Mass, maybe not, simply key groups playing off ignorance and using the age old approach of accuse and convict to sway mob emotion. Are some of these issues outright lies? I think so. Are some of these claims devious and malicious, I think so. I think this as they are evident in the issues to which they have been caught. I also think this because some people of this nature follow an ideal of "The end justifies the means" and they apply such honestly believing that in the end, it will result in good. So yes, people lie and cheat in the various propaganda and this is quite evident from some posters on this board (regardless of political faction) concerning the display of their claims. It is either that, or they honestly are ignorant to the point of being dysfunctional.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
From my perspective, the core difference between the TEA movement and the Coffee members is how each regards the government. I do not believe that our government is the enemy. I do not believe that our government exists simply to usurp my freedoms. I do not believe that the current president wants to assert absolute control over the populace. I do not believe that any/all taxation is bad. I do believe that it is possible to have constructive dialogue with people who have different points of view without name-calling and hyperbolic rhetoric. And, I do believe that our country will survive, and survive well, long past the lifetimes of any/all of us on this forum.
If that makes me 'ignorant' and 'arrogant', so be it.
The problem is, the founders didn't view government in the manner to which you describe the Coffee party. They were extremely distrustful of government, but realized that it was a necessary evil. They spoke endlessly about the dangers of giving it too much power, the dangers of a lethargic people slowly letting it usurp their individual rights. Many of the founders were adamant about it and so distrustful of such that they encouraged a rebellious attitude concerning it, that the government should in fact fear those it governs. They had experienced oppressive rule, what self interest of the people were capable of, what authority uncontested would result in.

Our entire system is designed based on this distrust. The people were never to view the government with awe, with wide open arms of acceptance and approval. It was simply a means to dealing with the necessities of protecting the people and their rights as a whole. This is why the Constitution does not state a positive direction as to what the government "can do", but rather what it "can not".

This is a key issue in why many disagree with Obama. Obama views the Constitution as flawed for the very reason it exists. He claims that it spends too much time telling the government what it can not do to the people and not enough time explaining how it can help the people. His entire contest to it is at odds with why it exists. His concept of government is contrary to which this country was founded. Now you can claim he has good intentions, but history is paved with the blood of good intentions.

Our founders knew this, warned of this, required the people to be vigilant, morale and virtuous in its responsibility to keep the government in line for they did not simply "believe", but "knew" the result of such if we did not.

This isn't about hate, it isn't about disgust, or any aspect of such. It is about our responsibility to keep our government in line, to remind it that it only exists to serve our needs and our needs can never be served through dictation.

So if the Coffee party stands for that which you have explained, then yes, they are at complete odds with the Tea Party, for the Coffee Party does not serve the best interest of the people by encouraging trust in government, it serves only the interest of those who would use government to enslave the people.

This is the true position to which those who represent the Constitution stand. This is the purpose to which the Tea Party serves.
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