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Old 04-13-2010, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,274,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Contrary to what you might believe, the Great Depression of the 1930s was not a decade-long era of economic decline. Rather, the Great Depression was made up of two distinct economic slumps - August 1929 through March 1933 and May 1937 through June 1938. the first recessionary period of the Great Depression was not only longer in duration, but more severe in magnitude. Notice, however, that a quite robust economic recovery/expansion occurred between the two recessions. In the four years ended 1937, real GDP grew at a compound annual rate of 9.4% . Lest you think that all of the increase in real GDP growth in the four years ended 1937 was accounted for by federal government spending, In the four years ended 1937, real GDP excluding real federal government expenditures grew at a compound annual rate of growth of 9.0% . In the four years ended 1937, industrial production grew at a compound annual rate of 12.9%. Although this vigorous real economic recovery did not bring the unemployment rate back down to anywhere near where it was before the 1929 recession commenced, the unemployment rate did fall from a cycle high of 25.6% in May 1933 to a cycle low of 11.0% in July 1937

Given some of the economic policy decisions made in 1930, 1931 and 1932, it is quite remarkable that a recovery commenced in April 1933. To wit, in 1930, Congress passed the Smoot-Hawley tariff legislation, effectively a large tax increase on imported goods. In response to this, a number of other foreign governments retaliated by passing their own tariff legislation. As a result, global trade collapsed.
After the stock market crashed in October 1929, the New York Fed cut its discount rate by 100 basis points to a level of 5% on November 1. The New York Fed continued reducing its discount rate through May 8, 1931, when the level came to rest at 1-1/2%. Then in two 100 basis point steps - on October 9, 1931 and on October 16, 1931 - the New York Fed increased its discount rate. So, the discount rate went from 1-1/2% on October 8, 1931 to 3-1/2% on October 16, 1931 - a two percentage point increase in approximately a one-week time span. On February 26, 1932, the discount rate was reduced to 3% and then reduced to 2-1/2% on June 24, 1932.
In 1932, marginal income tax rates on personal income were raised. In 1931, the highest marginal tax rate was 25% on incomes in excess of $100,000. In 1932, the marginal tax rate on incomes between $100,000 and $150,000 was increased to 56% - more than a 100% increase in this marginal tax rate . What's more, the top marginal tax rate went to 63% on incomes in excess of $1,000,000. So, if you were a million-dollar earner in 1931 and 1932, your marginal income tax rate increased by over 150%.
Starting in 1930 and continuing through 1933, almost 9,100 commercial banks failed with deposits of $6.8 billion. The deposits of these failed banks represented 13.3% of total commercial bank deposits as of 1929. Net losses to depositors of these failed banks were about $1.3 billion, or approximately 19% of the deposits of failed commercial banks. Between December 31, 1929 and December 31, 1933, commercial bank deposits, net of interbank deposits, contracted by 37% .
Despite protective tariffs, Fed discount rate increases, personal income tax rate increases and massive bank failures, the first recession of the Great Depression ended in March 1933, the same month in which Franklin D. Roosevelt was inaugurated as president. That is, the business cycle trough occurred before the "New Deal" policies were implemented.
In 1936, marginal personal income tax rates were increased again. For incomes between $100,000 and 150,000, the tax rate went from 56% to 62%, a 10.7% increase in the tax rate; for incomes between $1,000,000 and $2,000,000, the tax rate went from 63% to 77%, a 22.2% increase ; and for incomes in excess of $5,000,000, the marginal tax rate became 79%, an increase of 25.4% from the previous top marginal tax rate of 63%. Between August 1936 and May 1937, the Federal Reserve doubled the percentage of reserves commercial banks were required to hold relative to their deposits. The economic expansion that commenced in April 1933 then peaked in May 1937. The economy entered the second recession of the Great Depression, which lasted through June 1938.
There is much discussion in the media of late that FDR's "New Deal" policies were detrimental to economic growth during the 1930s. But we need to make a distinction between New Deal policies that dealt with increased federal government spending and those that dealt with the direct interference in markets. Perhaps the New Deal policies that directly interfered with markets were responsible for keeping the unemployment rate from falling as much as it otherwise would have. But as was discussed at the outset of this commentary, real GDP grew at a compound annual rate of growth of 9.4% in the four years ended 1937. Chart 5 shows the behavior of the percentage change in annual average real GDP and the percentage change in annual average real federal government expenditures. Perhaps it is coincidental that real GDP contracted by significantly less in 1933 and grew in 1934 through 1937 as the rate of growth in real federal government expenditures increased significantly in 1933, 1934 and 1936. Perhaps, had it not been for the stepped up increases in real federal government expenditures, the compound annual rate of growth in real GDP in the four years ended 1937 would have been even higher than 9.4%. Perhaps


increased government spending without the monetization of the increased federal debt has little impact on aggregate demand - real or nominal. That is, if increased federal government spending is funded by increased taxes or increased sales of Treasury securities to the nonbank public that are not monetized by the Fed and the banking system, then spending "power" is merely transferred from the private sector to the government sector, the net result of which is little if any increase in total spending in the economy. In this regard, it is interesting to observe the behavior of commercial bank reserves, which are, in effect, credit created by the Fed figuratively "out of thin air," during the 1930s. This is shown in Chart 6. The change in bank reserves was negative from 1929 through 1932. Then rapid growth in reserves commenced in 1933. In the four years ended 1936, bank reserves grew at a compound annual rate of 25.9%. Then, in 1937, reserves contracted by 18.9% along with a contraction in nominal federal government expenditures.

What does this review of historical facts have to do with the current economic environment? For starters, the policy hurdles that were put in front of an economic recovery in the early 1930s are absent today. The "Buy American" proposal related to the fiscal stimulus program seems to have gone by the wayside. The Fed has no intention of raising interest rates until it is sure the economy has begun to recover. Personal income tax rates are not likely to be raised until 2011. If the top marginal rate is increased then, the increase will be considerably smaller in absolute and relative terms than the tax increases of 1932 or 1936. Today, we have federal deposit insurance, so, for the most part, bank and thrift depositors will not incur losses if institutions fail. In addition, we have income maintenance programs such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps and unemployment insurance. So, the hurdles that today's economy has to jump over to enter a recovery would appear to be much lower than the hurdles that were erected between 1930 and 1932.
In addition, the federal government is about to embark on a massive fiscal stimulus program. Will the Fed monetize much of the new debt issued to fund this program? We do not know yet. But if recent history is any guide, the answer is yes. Chart 7 shows that the growth in bank reserves in 2008 was almost 149% - an unprecedented increase. If the federal government embarks on a large spending spree and the Fed "prints" the money to fund the spending, then the pace of real economic activity is bound to increase. How long it will take for higher prices to begin to erode real activity is another question. But never underestimate the initial positive impact on aggregate demand of that powerful combination of increased federal government spending/tax cuts and a central bank running the monetary printing press at a high speed.




It is not my role to endorse government policies. It is my role to forecast the impact of government policies on the economy. I believe that large increases in federal government spending that are monetized by the Fed and the banking system will result in a recovery in real economic activity. When that recovery sets in depends on how quickly the federal government increases its spending and by the magnitude of that increase. We can debate whether tax rates should be cut or federal spending should be increased. We can debate what kinds of spending should be increased. We can debate whether the federal government should increase any of its spending. But the facts of the 1930s appear to be pretty clear - monetized increased federal government spending does result in increased real economic activity in the short run.
The economic data are likely to be abysmal through the first half of this year. The popular media will reinforce the gloom of the data. The same pundits who did not see this downturn coming will not see the recovery coming either. My advice to you is to keep your eye on the index of Leading Economic Indicators. If history is any guide, the LEI will signal a recovery well ahead of the pundits.


Another interesting article...


A double-dip recession is coming: here are three reasons why - MoneyWeek
There is just too much truth in that article for libs to absorb in one sitting and few of them are going to try to do so with more than one sitting. Good post.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:17 AM
 
3,292 posts, read 4,474,877 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
LOL! Like the way Obama and Bush gave Goldman sach BILLIONS AND hired GS executives to run everything?

you mean like that kind of corporate collusion?
Yeah, I do actually.

Teapot Dome was just getting your hands caught in the cookie jar, if you don't think that was the only bit of corporate collusion then that's your deal
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:18 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinkieMcGee View Post
Yeah you're right corporate collusion wouldn't effect fiscal policy in any way shape or form.




The corporate media bias, does a pretty good job of it, don't they.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:21 AM
 
631 posts, read 720,146 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinkieMcGee View Post
Wait are you being serious or are you joking?

Teapot Dome scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I never understood it. This guy is considered one of the worst presidents in every circle. Why would we want him back?
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,544,683 times
Reputation: 24780
Default Why don't we ever hear of the 1920 depression?

Just a guess...

But probably for the same reason we don't hear as much about the French and Indian War as we do about the Revolutionary War.
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:24 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeym81 View Post
I never understood it. This guy is considered one of the worst presidents in every circle. Why would we want him back?


Why is he the best?
He didn't jack with everything. He actually didn't do much, but repealed some of which Wilson had done that was unconstitutional.

Why is he the worst?
Because he didn't jack with everything. He actually didn't do much, but repealed some of which Wilson had done that was unconstitutional.
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:41 PM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,677,849 times
Reputation: 17362
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
You talk about a 4 year depression (and it was a real good one, I have ever thought) but forget to say that the one Roosevelt caused with his socialist crap lasted until the Japanese attack and subsequent entry in World War II. Just think, 10 full years he allowed that one to go on without doing anything to ease it up. Now we have old (never let a good crisis go to waste) Obama and he is trying to follow Roosevelt right down the line. That tells me something about Obama.
Well, when I think about the old saw of Roosevelt 'saving capitalism" I'd think most folk's could see this present administration following suit, what's so hard about following the money trail that begins in the White House and ends at the vaults of Americas richest banks? This is socialism? I don't think so....

I never have figured out where the "socialist" stuff comes into the Obama administration, his entire cabinet has done time in some of America's biggest businesses, Eric Holder being the front man in helping Chiquita Brands get a sweet deal from legal services he rendered.

A while back Glenn Beck tried to convince America that the Obama crew was somehow not from the private sector, Jeeez, does that Bozo ever stop pimping for Wall Street? I don't drink the Kool Aid of party politics, they're both crooked as hell and have never given us a damn thing that didn't amount to table scraps left over from the feast off the taxpayers corpse..........

Last edited by jertheber; 04-13-2010 at 03:42 PM.. Reason: punctuation
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Old 04-13-2010, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Columbus
4,877 posts, read 4,508,466 times
Reputation: 1450
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
Harding did what had to be done by cutting federal spending in half.

Upon his election he gave an autographed photo of himself to his campaign manager Harry M. Daugherty of Washington Courthouse, Ohio.

For you history buffs, ever wonder where stuff like that ends up? The photo is on my dining room wall... my little piece of history.

Harding Photo
Is Harding from Marion?

I'm gonna have to stop by there sometime. I guess he has some kind of museum there.

If you ever get to Fremont, check out Rutherford B. Hayes house. Speigal Grove. I do believe it is the only privately funded presidential museum. It's quite interesting. I was born there so I alwayes took a liking to Hayes.

Thanks for the link. I like stuff like that.
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:37 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Just a guess...

But probably for the same reason we don't hear as much about the French and Indian War as we do about the Revolutionary War.

When things go right, you never hear of them again.
God forbid it go bad. They will never let you forget it.

Kinda like getting a spanking as a kid.
Compared to making A honor roll.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Northern Wi
1,530 posts, read 1,533,221 times
Reputation: 422
We don't hear about the Eugenics Movement and that was a very bad.

Image Archive on the American Eugenics Movement
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