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To quote one of the mods here who likes this old axiom...."Reading is fundamental."
Actually, typing something worthwhile for people to read is rather more fundamental.
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Originally Posted by doctorhugo
I'm familiar with the EU Times and their quality or lack thereof is irrelevant to me.
Well, that's a bit of a sad admission on your part, isn't it?
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I hate to be redundant, but apparently you failed to read what I posted afterwards. My posting of that 'allegation' was simply to get a conversation going about Obama's lack of competence in dealing on the international scene and how he is perceived.
Are you familiar with the logical fallacy known as "begging the question"?
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The 'alleged' Sarkozy incident was a good way to get attention, nothing more.
There's a name for people who post inflammatory BS to get reactions.
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It is true though that Sarkozy has become a sort of spokesman for many of the European nations and what he says is relevant,
Bold assertion on your part - again.
As for the mention of the Bush era, I believe you were the one to introduce Saddam as an example of Europe coming around to a more aggressive foreign policy. Which turns out to be at odds with reality, of course, but if you don't want the Iraq war mentioned, I would suggest not bringing it up.
Oh, so NOW you agree with the French
Not so much when Bush invaded Iraq - boycott France comes to mind
Reported in the first week of July, 2003 on The O'Reilly Factor on Fox News - France is harvesting the rotted fruit of their anti-American positions and statements. It is estimated that 43% of Americans are participating in the boycott.
Here is a story which might be instructive: I live in an area with sparse rail transit compared with my former NYC. I routinely ride between two nearby cities by bus. The route is on a 45 mph highway and the drivers blast by stops in the traveling lane unless a passenger indicates the need to disembark. People occasionally mistime it and the bus goes by their stop. So the habit of ringing early has come up. Drivers with good reflexes stop the bus and the passenger sheepishly say's "not this stop, the next one". No biggie, until the day it happened to me. You would have thought I displayed myself to a woman in the seat next to me. The other passengers were so irate I had to leave the bus for my own safety. I have never made the slightest groan of annoyance when it has happened to others nor have I ever seen the kind of outrage and hostility and derision turned on another passenger when it happened to them. Do I need to mention that I live in a predominantly white area and am usually the only black person on the entire bus? The pathetic transparency of what all this outrage over Obama's leadership is all about should give you pause, doc. Obama has simply not done anything wrong in office to justify this level of outrage. The hysteria is so completely unwarranted that it makes the lot of you look like foaming racist nutbags. For the love of God, cease and desist. Let the man work. I wish I could get his ear and tell him to stop trying to please you ingrates. It isn't worth it.
You may want to study some military history - France was the superpower in Europe for longer than the US has existed. Kipling said it succinctly: "Their business is war, and they do their business."
Just what victories have they enjoyed in the past 200 years? Their military history is pretty much a joke.........here's a good, and rather accurate example........
"france only wins when America does most of the fighting"
I'll stand by my assertion that france is totally irrelevant on the world stage, and has been for quite some time. Why should we care what Sarkozy says, even if he is correct?
Originally Posted by doctorhugo
To quote one of the mods here who likes this old axiom...."Reading is fundamental."
Actually, typing something worthwhile for people to read is rather more fundamental.
(Your opinion and ignores all I stated in my follow-up posts, which took off where Sarkozy left off.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorhugo I'm familiar with the EU Times and their quality or lack thereof is irrelevant to me.
Well, that's a bit of a sad admission on your part, isn't it?
(NO, not really. I posted on a piece of news from a source you think unreliable. It is still a legitimate "source". Using that subject matter to broach the matter of Obama's competence in dealing with the Euros on foreign policy issues (which directly relates to Sarkozy's criticisms) is legitimate. You don't care to participate then don't. Or are you attacking me, because you cannot defend Obama successfully?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorhugo
I hate to be redundant, but apparently you failed to read what I posted afterwards. My posting of that 'allegation' was simply to get a conversation going about Obama's lack of competence in dealing on the international scene and how he is perceived.
Are you familiar with the logical fallacy known as "begging the question"?
(Oh! Please to embellish and enlighten me.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorhugo
The 'alleged' Sarkozy incident was a good way to get attention, nothing more.
There's a name for people who post inflammatory BS to get reactions.
(Do you mean "Dane"? Careful Mr. Dane. You've not yet proven it is BS. I went to great lengths to indicate the reason I used that sourced topic and stuck to the topic in agreeing with Sarkozy. You apparently have gotten way too hot under the collar, because YOU disagree with my idea of using the source post for starting an interesting debate. I had no clandestine motivation and openly explained myself. Why not endeavor to get past your unjustified animose and defend Obama's incompetence as an foreign policy appeasor?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorhugo
It is true though that Sarkozy has become a sort of spokesman for many of the European nations and what he says is relevant,
Bold assertion on your part - again.
(So! That's what we all make here. Assertions...opinions...and then we attempt to justify them with factual indicators to justify our positions. Nothing at all wrong with an assertion. I've suggested that Obama is one who says that he's drawing a line in the sand. Then, when the object of his challenge steps across, he backs up and says 'Okay for you. I'm drawing another line!' Foreign policy, when despots and tyrants are involved, is made from positions of strength, not weakness. To compound that, the world leaders read and observe the media too and know him to be a liar.He just proved me right in that by his lie of a great accomplishment in the arms conference that China had gone along. They immediately denied that and outed him as a liar. That in itself, his default behavior pattern, doesn't make endearing himself to others any easier. If you need more examples of his mendacious tendencies I can assist you there. The world laughs at him.)
As for the mention of the Bush era, I believe you were the one to introduce Saddam as an example of Europe coming around to a more aggressive foreign policy. (Why don't you post that essential quote you "believe" I made indicating what you've concluded? I'd like to see it. I did mention Sad*ss Hussein, so before you put your foot in it, I didn't mention Bush and it so happens that Saddam preceeded Bush. Bush was a late comer to our failed policies in playing with and off Saddam. Go back to the Shah of Iran. Read your Middle East history.) Which turns out to be at odds with reality, of course, but if you don't want the Iraq war mentioned, I would suggest not bringing it up.
If you want to debate on the premise that Sarkozy has called Obama "insane" and that it somehow indicates a European anti-Obama groundswell, all I suggest is that you establish the premise first. You haven't. There are very good European newspapers - Frankfurter Allgemeine, Le Monde, even the Times (although they're going downhill fast) - which I'm sure you can use to build a case, if the sentiment is as widespread as you claim.
EUTimes is trash. Some of their headlines are racist enough to be unquotable under the TOS.
I wasn't "blowing a fuse". I was taking your comments for what they appeared to be and responded to them. When you use the source and my stated reason for using such to impune my integrity in posting I get, what you appeared to be. A bit hot under the collar.
If that's over with, I'll still debate the impression I believe he gives the European nation leaders. That was the entire point. It ain't a good impression. I have dug up some additional source to validate that and posted them here.
“For [the Obama] administration, details are magnified when they’re not sure of Netanyahu’s overall direction,” said David Makovsky, a senior fellow at The Washington Institute for Near East Policy and author, with Obama aide Dennis Ross, of a recent book on the region. “If they had a sense of where he’s going, they’d cut him slack.”
That distrust feeds a vicious circle: Netanyahu, observers said, has refused — out of distrust — to signal to Obama how far he’s willing to go in final-status negotiations. That caginess deepens the distrust.
“If last night they shared that strategic vision, that’s what will repair the relationship,” said Makovsky. “There’s no sign of that, but of course we don’t know.” Source: Netanyahu departs Washington amid chill - Laura Rozen - POLITICO.com
Here, Israel has observed Obama and his admiistration's short history of taking the Palestinian side against them and trying to publicly pressure them into a change in attitude on settlements construction. This... STILL WITHOUT the demand by Obama of an open acknowledgment of Israel's right to exist by the Palestinians in power. NOT a good strategy for dealing with another nation..humiliation. And to add fuel to the fire he sends over his human blunderbuss of a spokesman, Lonely Joe Biden, who nobody wants to stand too close to and he really gets publicly tacky and out-of-bounds. And Obama thinks Bush was "arrogant" in his foreign policy? HUH! No woner Netanyahu doesnt trust Obama.
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RUSSIA Comrades: Washington insiders were surprised to learn in March that Obama's advisors counted Russian President Dmitry Medvedev among the U.S. president's closest foreign confidants. "[C]ould it really be that an American president has found his closest foreign partner in the Kremlin?" wondered the Washington Post's Jackson Diehl. Maybe not, but the two men do seem to be friends with benefits: Last week, Obama triumphantly announced a breakthrough in nuclear talks with Russia following a direct phone call with Medvedev to finalize matters. Source: Photo Essay: All the Presidents’ Friends | Foreign Policy
Vladimir Putin is 'real power' in Russia
A senior adviser and close ally of Russia's president Dmitry Medvedev became the first official to admit publicly that Vladimir Putin remains the country's real power.
By Adrian Blomfield in Moscow
Published: 10:12PM BST 20 May 2008
So Obama gets suckered into playing buddy-buddy with the 'Smiley" Medvedev puppet as on every front Russia acts to push us further away and tease Obama into dropping back our missile defenses to gain concessions from Russia that will not be forthcoming against Iran. The willingness to even consider sacrificing our best national security interests in favor of sanction supports by Russia against Iran is dangeously mond-boggling and very scary.
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is poised to adopt a new policy potentially restricting the nation's use of nuclear arms, U.S. officials said, and hopes to persuade Russia to agree to mutual cuts in nuclear arsenals that go beyond the arms treaty both sides will sign this week. Source: ://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/us-plans-to-propose-broader-arms-control-agenda-with-russia-to-include-short-range-weapons/
So first he drops OUR guard in the HOPE that Russia will make concessions. Sheer madness! No wonder an article came out saying Sarkozy called him "crazy' in French.
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FRANCE Mon ami?: In Paris, June 2009, Obama turned down an invitation from French President Nicolas Sarkozy to dine at the Elysée Palace, instead taking First Lady Michelle Obama to a Paris restaurant. When asked about the snub later, Obama replied, "Good friends don't worry about the symbol and the conventions and the protocols." But Sarkozy's luck might just be changing. On March 30, the French leader and his supermodel wife, Carla Bruni, are scheduled for a private dinner with the Obamas. Source: Photo Essay: All the Presidents’ Friends | Foreign Policy
Here: Sarkozy cools toward Obama
Source: Global Times
[01:58 December 29 2009]
"French President Nicolas Sarkozy has gone cold on his US counterpart Barack Obama, the Financial Times (FT) reported Monday.
Sarkozy, whose pro-Washington stance has seen him nicknamed "Sarko the American," stressed that France and the US were "the same family" during his first face-to-face meeting with Obama in April since the US elections last year." Source:
Global Times - Sarkozy cools toward Obama (http://world.globaltimes.cn/europe/2009-12/494953.html - broken link)
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POLAND
"If you happen to work for the Obama Administration and you’re reading these words, get ready for an earful. According to columnist Marcin Bosacki of Poland’s Gazeta Wyborcza, Eastern European and particularly Polish discontent with the White House is high, and the reasons essentially boil down to the following:
The decision to ditch the Bush-era anti-missile shield which was to be built in Poland and the Czech Republic and come along with substantial military assistance – offering a measure of security that if push came to shove with Moscow, the U.S. would step up to the plate; and driving this, America’s ‘great power’ desire to cozy up to Russia at Poland’s and Eastern Europe’s expense" Source: Obama’s Lesson: Poland Can’t Count on the United States: Gazeta Wyborcza, Poland | The Moderate Voice
That's what I got so far on a quick sojourn into the search engines.
Now you're all about France. What a short memory the right has in this country!
Lol @ quoting EUTimes though. People, research your sources so that you don't come off as someone who knows absolutely nothing about anything outside of America.
Obama has simply not done anything wrong in office to justify this level of outrage. The hysteria is so completely unwarranted that it makes the lot of you look like foaming racist nutbags. For the love of God, cease and desist. Let the man work. I wish I could get his ear and tell him to stop trying to please you ingrates. It isn't worth it.
H
So true, I had to quote you and highlight what I consider the headline to your statement. For all of you constantly bashing president Obama, read this again and again. This is what you are starting to appear like to SOOO many people in this world, hysterical fearmongers. Try laying off the Faux "News" for a while.
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Dane_in_LA
