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Old 04-21-2010, 03:15 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,722,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
What makes you think it's hate because I see it as being abnormal. I have pity and feel sorry for them actually. It's sad that people have to go through their lives so conflicted on the inside and they think that by changing the outside to match how they feel on the inside it's going to make it all better. These people have no idea what it is to feel like a man, and think that the solution is that they "feel like a girl". Keep in mind they're not born a girl, and have no idea what a female "feels like".

In my opinion it has to be the most pathetic mentally conflicted condition a human can have on earth. But then again, all mental illness is.
IMO, how would anyone of us know unless we were going through the same things? Perhaps you are oversimplifying this...
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:15 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,870,106 times
Reputation: 1750
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
What makes you think it's hate because I see it as being abnormal. I have pity and feel sorry for them actually. It's sad that people have to go through their lives so conflicted on the inside and they think that by changing the outside to match how they feel on the inside it's going to make it all better. These people have no idea what it is to feel like a man, and think that the solution is that they "feel like a girl". Keep in mind they're not born a girl, and have no idea what a female "feels like".

In my opinion it has to be the most pathetic mentally conflicted condition a human can have on earth. But then again, all mental illness is.
'Changing the outside' as you put it does make things better. Most trans women lead quite happy (and usually more productive/successful) lives than genetic women, why? Because they have to fight to be who they are and this makes them strive harder than people who are cisgendered. You'll be suprised how many 'city boys' have trans girlfriends. The main downside I see is the high degree of prostitution amongst the community.

Also in terms of beauty, i've yet to meet a passable trans woman who isn't model perfect. There are a few, but not many.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:20 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,722,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Because of political correctness.

If I thought I should be a dolphin, and had surgery to give me a fin, and a bottle nose,w ould you think I'm mentally ill? I'm a human, not a dolphin.

If you are born with a penis. you are a male.

If you are born with a vagina, you are a female.

if you cannot accept that, you have mental problems that should be treated, not enabled.
Does that apply to gay people also? Should they be seeking mental help for their "abnormal" behavior? I'm failing to see anything PC in your opinion.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:21 PM
 
Location: The D-M-V area
13,691 posts, read 18,450,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archineer View Post
Riiiiiiiiight so theres no such thing as intersex? Just male, female and birth defects. Are these 'birth defects' really male or female? If not then they must be something else- genderless maybe?

Male and female are just opposite ends of a gender spectrum. Spectrum is the key word.
That's right, there's only male, or female. "Intersex" or hermaphrodite isn't the norm. Because you think that the condition of being sex neutral is beautiful doesn't mean everyone has your opinion. It is abnormal. Doesn't mean I hate them because they're abnormal, it's not their fault they were born that way. My opinion is that it's a sad, pathetic condition of humanity to be neither male nor female, or conflicted about how you should present yourself to the world. How that condition (transsexualism) consumes so much of someone's life that they have to walk the earth unhappy about the sex parts they were born with to the degree that changing them is the only solution to living. It's truly sad.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:27 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,722,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
I still don't understand the comments of the lefties. I'm apparently committing "hate speech" and "fear mongering" by suggesting someone who wants to cut their penis off, and replace it with a vagina, is mentally ill, and should seek psychiatric treatment to accept who they were born as...

What's with trying to silence opinions you don't agree with?

Am I fear mongering if I say a necrophiliac is mentally ill and needs mental help? Or is it something we should just enable as a society, that some people want to have sex with dead bodies, and some want to cut their genitalia off because they think they are something they are not?

If I wanted to have wings surgically implanted in place of my arms, would you say I am mentally fine, and that I should be able to do what whatever I want (be enabled) or perhaps I should get mental help to accept I am a person, and not a bird?
B. From what I've read of your opinions, they seem honest but what basis do you have? Other than you appear to see the behavior as deranged using examples of physical modification that may, or may not, really be relevant to the phenomena of being a transgender.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:28 PM
 
Location: The D-M-V area
13,691 posts, read 18,450,941 times
Reputation: 9596
It reminds me of the South African runner Caster Semenya.

She is intersex. People like this can't help how they were born.

The transsexuals are the ones who I have the most difficulty understanding.



In my opinion there's a big difference between Caster and Tootsie:

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Old 04-21-2010, 03:31 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,870,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
It reminds me of the South African runner Caster Semenya.

She is intersex. People like this can't help how they were born.

The transsexuals are the ones who I have the most difficulty understanding.
It's simple. They are intersex too, just their brains are affected rather than their genitals.

edit: had to post pics of ones you find unattractive didn't you. I suppose it irks you they usually don't look like that.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:35 PM
 
Location: The D-M-V area
13,691 posts, read 18,450,941 times
Reputation: 9596
Quote:
Originally Posted by archineer View Post
It's simple. They are intersex too, just their brains are affected rather than their genitals.
Arch...

There is absolutely no scientific evidence that their brains are affected chemically. They have normal chromosome counts. If there was something detectable, it would be measurable. Transsexuals are conflicted in how they perceive themselves. Intersex people have chromosome abnormalities which are measurable.

A trans person has a problem with how they perceive their bodies to be out of sync with how they "feel" in their minds, despite the fact that there's nothing medically/chromosomally wrong with their bodies.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,870,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
Arch...

There is absolutely no scientific evidence that their brains are affected chemically. They have normal chromosome counts. If there was something detectable, it would be measurable. Transsexuals are conflicted in how they perceive themselves. Intersex people have chromosome abnormalities that's measurable.
Yes there is, but not chemically- neurologically. I guess you haven't read the whole thread.

See:
Zhou JN, Hofman MA, Gooren LJ, Swaab DF. A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. Nature (1995) 378:68–70. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../378068a0.html

Kruijver FP, Zhou JN, Pool CW, Hofman MA, Gooren LJ, Swaab DF. Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041.
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus -- Kruijver et al. 85 (5): 2034 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

And many other papers on the subject
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:39 PM
 
Location: London, U.K.
3,006 posts, read 3,870,106 times
Reputation: 1750
I've posted about it before

//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...s-heard-7.html
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