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Old 04-20-2010, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Say-Town! Texas
968 posts, read 2,618,577 times
Reputation: 567

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
What?
Where did any of this come from?

Ahhh, so your "facts" are hearsay.
Wilford hall is a military facility; how much of that anecdotal "information" is from the real world?

How about you providing evidence or medical statistics since you admit that you have none.
uhh, because i was giving a different point of view.

are you saying that only old people suck the system? not unwed mothers and single parent house holds? i dont do absolutes.
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:27 AM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,729,480 times
Reputation: 4570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orincarnia View Post
excellent, your experiences serve you well, but do you really believe you have enough evidence to make a statistical claim as you have? i mean seeing several brown bears in america, asia and africa doesn't mean you've seen the white ones in the arctic.
Is my experience enough to judge the maternal/neonatal stats of every pocket of the US? No.

I'm not trying to state that I know more than your family member, just that I've seen a much wider subset of patients and not from just one small area of the country. My work has taken me from the Pacific NW to other parts of the west coast, the midwest, the southwest, and the mid-Atlantic.

And based on that, my observations are vastly different than your family member's.

That's all.
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:28 AM
 
8,058 posts, read 3,929,455 times
Reputation: 5343
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
In a developed, compassionate nation, we won't have to pick one or the other. Safety net and access to care should extend to all, with everybody contributing to the best of their capabilities.

Why paraphrase? Why not quote directly: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Under our current system, the government stands between us and insurance companies - who will stand between us and the government under single-payer? (God forbid the Op control such a system)
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:57 AM
 
8,860 posts, read 5,345,554 times
Reputation: 5662
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
As has been stated, why not just cut the military budget in half?
That would do it in one fell swoop.
If I recall correctly it came in rather handy on September 11, 2001 when Mayor Rudy Guliani was screaming at President Bush that he needed air cover.

I guess we could have sent out a bunch of peaceniks in rowboats off Manhattan, but I tend to doubt it would have much protection against any further incoming planes.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:00 PM
 
326 posts, read 429,209 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
If I recall correctly it came in rather handy on September 11, 2001 when Mayor Rudy Guliani was screaming at President Bush that he needed air cover.

I guess we could have sent out a bunch of peaceniks in rowboats of Manhattan, but I tend to doubt it would have much protection against any further incoming planes.
Absolutely. If we cut military spending by half, our military would be all reduced to peaceniks. Makes perfect sense.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:02 PM
 
8,860 posts, read 5,345,554 times
Reputation: 5662
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I was scheduled to have a sonogram on my carotid artery tomorrow but since it costs money and I am past your age of 75 I will call and tell them I am too old to be wasting their time and will then go out on the highway and lie down in front of a semi-truck. The damned fool driver would probably try to miss and wreck his rig so maybe I better sit around a think of a better way to take my life. I am a coward about suicide since I know a man who managed to blow off his jaw and cheekbone along with that side of his face but did a poor job and had to live for years without what he blew away.

When do you think the death panels will be in effect? Maybe they can take care of my problem.
The state of Oregon has solved this problem.

Suicide is painless .... and much cheaper! So hurry up!

Death Drugs Cause Uproar in Oregon - ABC News
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:03 PM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,729,480 times
Reputation: 4570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
If I recall correctly it came in rather handy on September 11, 2001 when Mayor Rudy Guliani was screaming at President Bush that he needed air cover.

I guess we could have sent out a bunch of peaceniks in rowboats of Manhattan, but I tend to doubt it would have much protection against any further incoming planes.
And the build-up of our military after that day has been outrageous and more than we can AFFORD.

The current military budget, not the one in 2001, could and should be scaled down.

If nothing else, a good part of that budget should be used to care for our military personnel once they have fulfilled their duties and return home. JMO.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,767,183 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
Why paraphrase? Why not quote directly: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Under our current system, the government stands between us and insurance companies - who will stand between us and the government under single-payer? (God forbid the Op control such a system)
It is not paraphrasing. I don't know about you but we earthly humans cannot contribute beyond our capabilities.

BTW, the topic you're trying to contribute to the best of your capabilities is about the elderly... and who runs medicare under which these elders ultimately rely on?
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,767,183 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
If I recall correctly it came in rather handy on September 11, 2001 when Mayor Rudy Guliani was screaming at President Bush that he needed air cover.

I guess we could have sent out a bunch of peaceniks in rowboats off Manhattan, but I tend to doubt it would have much protection against any further incoming planes.
When nearly half of world's military spending is required for a basic air cover, you better start asking questions.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
Luckily, Roy, all patients' overall state of health is taken into account when considering medical intervention. In other words, if a patient is simply too medically fragile to reasonably be expected to survive a surgery, of course none will be performed.

The only death panels in existence are conducted by insurance companies, who make their exorbitant profits by denying care for patients. Physicians are often up in arms about wanting to provide care for their patients, yet are told certain procedures will not be covered.

They are the ones who are usually responsible for setting age requirements and limits....not Obama, not your doctor.
I can't agree with you in that before Palin did her job on the Congress there were certainly provisions for death panels. Now if insurance companies have those death panels, what is to stop the DC people from doing the very same thing once they manage to get single payer insurance?

I wonder how many doctors will manage to get themselves in a world of hurt once they violate the orders of the DC appointed panels about care and who can have it.

I think that the worst thing that we could come up with right now would be single payer with people like Zeke Emanuel in the White House advising about medicine.

You say that Obama doesn't want those death panels but he seems to appoint people who believe that way and that tells me something about him and what he does want.

I have no doubt that if we had had the form of medical care that the left has tried to push off on us in 2005 when I had my heart attack and resulting emergency 6 bypass surgery there would have been someone determining who got it first. While I was lying in the bed in a recovery room an old man who had had bypass surgery across the hall moved out and before the morning was over a little girl of about 9 wheeled her dad, in a wheel chair, into the same room. Now we had a man of about 40 in that room getting shaved the same as I did 5 days before. He had three small children, and according to one of my nurses, he had chest pains that sounded like heart problem. He got his by pass surgery the next morning. My problem is would he have gone first instead of me in the system the advisors of Obama, like Zeke, want us to have? I would say that he should have because my youngest child was 20 at the time and that young man had three much younger than that.

There is no doubt in my mind that once we get social medicine we will see something very akin to death panels and they will determine who gets what. I think that my experience with how Medicare works makes it very obvious that appointed bureaucrats will not work the way medical people do. Things will take a drastic change once we get to the point where government is in control of medicine.

BTW, I started lifting weights about 10 months after the surgery and am still doing that. I don't know how many more years I will be around but the excellent care that I got saved my life, without doubt. My heart arteries were barely getting any blood since three of them were about 85% plugged and three more like 95%. My heart attack was so mild that I felt no real pain but I didn't wait to get to the hospital although there was no real pain and if I hadn't gone I would have expired that night. In fact the EMT that rode with me in the ambulance thought that I did leave for a while from the blood pressure. I thought I was taking a little nap but she said it appeared it might be a long one for a time. Damn, those people at that hospital were good and I love every one of them, especially that first day ICU nurse.
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