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Old 04-20-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,730,067 times
Reputation: 1336

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HummerLuvr View Post
I don't really care what Lincoln did. However, I am concerned about people out there who think like McVeigh did. And it's abundantly clear that there are unfortunately a number of people out there these days who think that violence is the way to make their voices heard and the way to "change things" ....... McVeigh was stunningly delusional and confused, and yet he was able to twist his thinking to a point that he ended up believing that he was a "hero" for what he did......he boasted 168 to 1! No doubt there are other "young men" out there today who are believing the bs being spouted on talk radio and Fox every day, and at some point, one of them or several of them, will decide that they have to resort to violence to "save their country" .......while Rush, Sean, and Beck laugh all the way to the bank.....and the "patriots" and militia groups drool with envy. Little minds who want to make a "big impact" by doing some killing in order to "show government."
Well maybe they would not feel the need to "show government" anything if the government people who did the same things were punished like everyone else.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:06 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,337 posts, read 26,406,691 times
Reputation: 11335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy7fo View Post
rants. I was kind of shocked of the same usuage of words and phrases. It's like they both worshipped in the same place....

15 years later, hearing McVeigh's confession - Documentaries- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36633900 - broken link)
Well, how about that. Anyone who wants more limited government and doesn't blindly trust the feds is the next McVeigh.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Michigan
412 posts, read 404,187 times
Reputation: 185
Right-wingers get defensive way too easily. When a DHS report (begun under Bush) says that right wing extremists were a theat, they assume that it was saying all conservatives were terrorists. When racially charged rhetoric is criticised, the teapartiers claim that they're arbitrarily calling all teapartiers racist. Somebody compares the attitudes at the time of the Oklahoma city bombing and now and suggests that Republican/Tea party rhetoric is propogating extremism, and they assume that they're claiming that all teapartiers are the same as McVeigh. It's like they're in love with the idea of being persecuted.

I'm not going to tiptoe around the issue so as not to throw conservatives in a fit. I know that most are peaceful (though that doesn't necessarily mean I have a positive view of them) but their rhetoric is very extreme, if not outright violent. They have built up an atmosphere of hate, fear, and paranoia, which is a magnet for violent extremists.

I think that a mob mentality has taken hold and that a lot of them don't even realize what they're saying anymore. They've heard Obama called a socialist so many times that they don't even stop to question it. They don't need to know the actual academic definition of socialism or understand Obama's policies, the idea that he's a socialist (and therefore communist, marxist, maoist, and a nazi too) has been drilled into their heads to such an extent that it's impossible for them to think any differently. It's the same with the idea that Obama is sinister and intentionally trying to destroy the country. They've heard it so much that it's impossible for them to believe that any move he makes is not motivated by malice. There are more deceptions, half-truths, and outright lies being spread about Obama that it's impossible for me to even begin to go over all of them. IIt's impossible to have reasonable debate with people possessing such a distorted view of reality. They'll criticize anything he does, including what dog he got for his daughters, the charities he gave the nobel prize money to, and the type of mustard he eats (remember: dijon mustard=elitist).

These things are tame compared to their more extreme rhetoric however. When they allude to revolution and bring guns to protests, it's really disturbing. And no, to all of you who are about to respond that I want to stifle free speech, I'm not saying they can't do it, I'm saying that it's highly inappropriate and irresponsible to use such violent imagery. They treat political rivals as "the enemy" and propogate an "us-vs-them" mentality. Make as many excuses as you want, but keep in mind that if it were a muslim group making allusions to armed revolt and telling its followers to stockpile weapons and ammunition, people would think they're up to something.

If you're so concerned about people thinking you're extremists, it might help to actually acknowledge instances of extremism rather than just trying to distance yourself for the sake of PR. Extremist rhetoric and the atmoshpere it creates is making this happen, and I'm tired of having to overlook it so right-wingers won't get defensive.
2009 Pittsburgh police shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Assassination of George Tiller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hutaree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,619 posts, read 23,932,403 times
Reputation: 14944
Quote:
Originally Posted by HummerLuvr View Post
Did the people who "burst" into your friend's office kill anybody? This thread is about the Oklahoma City bombing by Timothy McVeigh, the largest domestic terrorism attack in the U.S. to date.
Another apologist.

So terrorism is ok as long as nobody dies, right?

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Old 04-20-2010, 04:28 PM
 
533 posts, read 317,389 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostSoul83 View Post
I don't give a crap if it was legally obtained or not. They had no right to break into someone's home for having guns without identifying themselves. The atf was trying to make its self look good by staging this raid hell they even called the media to let them know something was going to happen to make sure they got it on tape because of the major screw up in murdering 2 innocent people in Idaho the year before. The sheriff of this county has said repeatedly all they had to do was ask koresh to come into town or let the sheriff handle it since he is the highest ranking law enforcement agent in his county. He had dealt with koresh before on different occasions and they knew each other. Maybe next time the ATF thugs will think twice before busting someones door down because of a supposed legal warrant signed by some tyrant in a robe. They won't be so hasty to abuse yer constitutional rights if they think there may be a chance they are gonna get shot at for their efforts.You liberal lap dogs need to realize people are getting real fed up with our rights being taken from us they were made rights for a reason no judge or court can take them away or throw them away at their whim.
this has got to be one of the most disgusting rants I've ever read on CD. You have done nothing in this thread but come within a fraction of an inch of sedition. I hope your posts are being read by the FBI.

I don't see any of my rights being abused. and when you know enough about the Constitution that you can teach Constitutional Law at a major law school, THEN talk to us about the Constitution. You think judges don't have a right to restrict your rights? Try committing a FELONY and see just how fast your "rights" get restricted. What are you, anyway, an anarchist?
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:30 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,803 posts, read 8,731,911 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy7fo View Post
rants. I was kind of shocked of the same usuage of words and phrases. It's like they both worshipped in the same place....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36633900
Oh for the love of little purple monkeys......
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,619 posts, read 23,932,403 times
Reputation: 14944
Quote:
Originally Posted by WatermelonRat View Post
When racially charged rhetoric is criticised, the teapartiers claim that they're arbitrarily calling all teapartiers racist.
What rock have you been living under?


YouTube - Janeane Garofalo declares Tea Party attendees racist and Keith Olbermann agrees.
(that's from a year ago)
And the follow-up

YouTube - Janeane Garofalo vs Tea Baggers from Greta Van Susteren

I know you're new here, but look around the forum at the various Tea Party threads. Calling the entire movement racist is the standard modus operandi for the anti-Tea Party folks. That tactic extends well beyond this forum - just open your eyes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WatermelonRat View Post
I'm not going to tiptoe around the issue so as not to throw conservatives in a fit. I know that most are peaceful (though that doesn't necessarily mean I have a positive view of them) but their rhetoric is very extreme, if not outright violent. They have built up an atmosphere of hate, fear, and paranoia, which is a magnet for violent extremists.
The only violence that's taken place at any Tea Party in the last year has been perpetrated by anti-Tea Party folks. SEIU, Reid supporters, etc.

I'd be curious to see examples of "their rhetoric" that you believe is "very extreme." I'm not talking about a few nuts carrying signs that have been cherry-picked out of the tens of thousands of signs that have been displayed. Show me something that indicates that the core philosophy of the movement is "very extreme" and that the majority of protesters agree with it.

You've either been bamboozled and you actually believe the tripe you wrote, or you're deliberately promoting an untruthful image of the movement. I'm betting on the latter.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:33 PM
 
533 posts, read 317,389 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Well maybe they would not feel the need to "show government" anything if the government people who did the same things were punished like everyone else.
so, you think people who are delusional and paranoid and clearly "off track" are rational? Do you think Timothy McVeigh was "rational" in his decision to blow up the building in Oklahoma City therefore his decision to "show the government" was a good one and was justified?
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:37 PM
 
383 posts, read 221,978 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by HummerLuvr View Post
this has got to be one of the most disgusting rants I've ever read on CD. You have done nothing in this thread but come within a fraction of an inch of sedition. I hope your posts are being read by the FBI.

I don't see any of my rights being abused. and when you know enough about the Constitution that you can teach Constitutional Law at a major law school, THEN talk to us about the Constitution. You think judges don't have a right to restrict your rights? Try committing a FELONY and see just how fast your "rights" get restricted. What are you, anyway, an anarchist?

Oh believe me I can guarantee the FBI has a file on me probably knows all the books I check out at the library,knows what forums and social sites I am on. Does it bother me? Nope. I have not done anything wrong but as we have seen you don't need to do anything wrong for big brother to murder you.

No I am not an anarchist.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,619 posts, read 23,932,403 times
Reputation: 14944
Quote:
Originally Posted by HummerLuvr View Post
don't twist my words, you loser.
I'm not twisting anything. I pointed out a instance of domestic terrorism committed by an extreme left-wing terrorist organization against a company that a friend of mine worked at, and you tried to diminish it.

I can only infer from your response that you think terrorism that doesn't kill people is ok, but terrorism that does kill people isn't.

Oh, and love the "loser" comment. Did I touch a nerve? Hit a little too close to the bone, perhaps?
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