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Old 04-26-2010, 01:32 PM
 
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Israel has all the rights to build their capital. However, it should make no difference since in the past, when agreements were signed, Israel dismantled MANY settlements, evacuated their population and did so more then once. A new apartment neighborhood should make no difference if and when a peace agreement is reached.
That being said, the question (from Israel's perspective) is if that's the right time to build those houses. Even if legitimate, is it clever? (Lets think what Israel gains and what it may lose).
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
I did not refer to it as a problem per se, but rather as an area of policy "where [a] problem occurs." This is because E. Jerusalem is disputed, like North Nicosia, and as such any changes to the status quo will inevitably cause further disputes among the interested parties.
Randomstudent,
What part of Israel is undisputed?
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
I'm a Jew and a Democrat who supports Israel, but not every action they take (any more than I support everything the U.S. does - like invade sovereign nations on trumped-up allegations). I wonder what "names" apply to me.
A rational, intelligent person
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:57 PM
 
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
Randomstudent,
What part of Israel is undisputed?
While in practice all of Israel is supposedly disputed by some, the fact of the matter is there are much more tangible disputes over the post '67 boundaries, then there are over the post '48 boundaries. The central reason East Jerusalem is so disputed is that was conquered from Jordan in the 1967 war. (And please don't give me the whole...well Israelis had it 3000 years ago stuff, that is mere moralist justification and I am talking about modern events here.) So in essence Gaza, The West Bank, and East Jerusalem are far more in dispute then much of the rest of Israel which was more or less acquired in the free for all after the British withdrew.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
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Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
While in practice all of Israel is supposedly disputed by some, the fact of the matter is there are much more tangible disputes over the post '67 boundaries, then there are over the post '48 boundaries. The central reason East Jerusalem is so disputed is that was conquered from Jordan in the 1967 war. (And please don't give me the whole...well Israelis had it 3000 years ago stuff, that is mere moralist justification and I am talking about modern events here.) So in essence Gaza, The West Bank, and East Jerusalem are far more in dispute then much of the rest of Israel which was more or less acquired in the free for all after the British withdrew.
I would say that about 95% of the arab world thinks israel has no right to exist, so it is all disputed..

I'm curious, was jerusalem disputed when Jordan controlled it from 1948-1967 or disputed only happen when Jews win territories?
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:06 PM
 
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
I would say that about 95% of the arab world thinks israel has no right to exist, so it is all disputed..

I'm curious, was jerusalem disputed when Jordan controlled it from 1948-1967 or disputed only happen when Jews win territories?
Most of the Arab world may say that. But most of the discussion in the rest of the world revolves around the 1967 boundaries.

To answer your question in one word. Yes. Jerusalem has been disputed since the fall of the Ottoman empire. In fact Jerusalem has been disputed on and off since Roman times.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
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Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
Most of the Arab world may say that. But most of the discussion in the rest of the world revolves around the 1967 boundaries.

To answer your question in one word. Yes. Jerusalem has been disputed since the fall of the Ottoman empire. In fact Jerusalem has been disputed on and off since Roman times.
Israel doesn't live amongst the rest of the world, it lives amongst the arab world, which most of which wants israel gone...

Okay, so if Jerusalem has been despited since Roman times, who else besides Jews has been forbidden from constructing there?
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:11 PM
 
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Israel doesn't live amongst the rest of the world, it lives amongst the arab world, which most of which wants israel gone...
Israel sure does live among the rest of the world...If it didn't it would not have the trade and military relationships it does with Europe, America, East Asia and South Africa. As to the Arab world the two out of Israel's 3 major neighbors recognize Israel, have peace treaties with Israel, and have diplomatic relationships with Israel.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
5,412 posts, read 4,239,419 times
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Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
Israel sure does live among the rest of the world...If it didn't it would not have the trade and military relationships it does with Europe, America, East Asia and South Africa. As to the Arab world the two out of Israel's 3 major neighbors recognize Israel, have peace treaties with Israel, and have diplomatic relationships with Israel.
But that could easily change with an islamist revolution in those countries. The "peace" is on a governmental level, but not amongst the people. Remember, the top song in egypt a couple years ago was "I hate Israel". Their media etc still demonizes jews and israelis..

israel is surrounded by a sea of millions of people who want it destroyed, and a couple of islamic revolutions in Egypt, Jordan, etc.. and Israel will be back where it started from except with even crazier enemies than the secular pan arabists like Nasser.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:18 PM
 
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Okay, so if Jerusalem has been despited since Roman times, who else besides Jews has been forbidden from constructing there?
Well lets see.

First the Greeks, conquered the city and subjugated the Jews living there, then the Romans conquered the city and subjugated the Greeks and Jews living there. Then the Arabs conquered the city and subjugated the Greco-Roman inhabitants, Then the Western Christian conquered it and Killed most of the Arab, Jewish and Eastern Christian residents, then the Arabs reconquered it and threw out the Western Christians residents, Then the Israelis conquered it and are currently in the process of trying to make the city more Jewish again.

So from this we can tell that at one time or another the...

Jews, Greco-Roman Eastern Christians, Arabs, and Western Christians, were all expelled from or ethnically cleansed from the city, which would make it so they could not build there.
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