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Old 04-27-2010, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Northeast Ohio
571 posts, read 940,179 times
Reputation: 443

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Maybe. But there is precious little science supporting the other side, either. Up until the early 70's homosexuality was considered a psychological disorder. As a result of lobbying by homosexual groups the APA then took a vote and de-listed homosexuality as a disorder. There was no science behind that vote and any putative "science" since then has been to try to vindicate that vote. The only thing we know for sure is that the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures condemn out-of-wedlock sex--whether heterosexual or homosexual.
Wrong. The person who announced that homosexuality was no longer a mental illness had to wear a paper bag over his head & spoke to interviewers on condition of anonymity so that his career wouldn't be ruined. This shows that they weren't influenced because there was nobody to be influenced by: it wasn't "normalized" until the late 70's at least. There was no "lobbying" at all; sorry but you do not know more than thousands of highly-trained doctors with PHD's. I'd trust them over Joe Biblethump III who got his degree from Televangelist Fundie U.

Mental illness is when there are irregularities in the brain and the behavior is harmful. I am bisexual and haven't had any harm done to me whatsoever. In fact, i am a 3.0 student who has never drank, done drugs, or had casual sex in my entire life. My problems come from the occasional ignorant bigot here and there, or boyfriend/girlfriend troubles, but that's about it. I'm perfectly well adjusted, and not mentally ill, thank you.

Also, I don't care about Christian or Hebrew scriptures. sorry.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:08 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,316,974 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
Yes, that's the line espoused by the anti-gay crowd. So typical. If they don't like the science, they just say it's all made up, or it's all a conspiracy. Oh well. If they want to be ignorant, I guess that's their choice.
From I've seen, it's more that they take the science and distort the findings to mean the opposite of what the original researchers concluded. It's really incredible how these anti-gay crusaders seem to get away with making outrageous claims time after time - because so few people stop and actually read at the actual studies themselves.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:35 AM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,569,384 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
From I've seen, it's more that they take the science and distort the findings to mean the opposite of what the original researchers concluded. It's really incredible how these anti-gay crusaders seem to get away with making outrageous claims time after time - because so few people stop and actually read at the actual studies themselves.
It is outrageous, but none of it surprises me anymore. If they disagree with any bit of news or science, they flip it around to mean the opposite (as you said), or they really go ballistic and start shouting about how their "freedom" is being taken away from them. It's laughable.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:10 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,719,883 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkcin View Post
Grow up!

It must suck to live in a small narrow-minded world. I feel so sorry for you that you can't love and have compassion and tolerance for all of God's creations, including the gay ones. If you play the Christian card....Jesus loved and preached to society's fallen and downcast, He was on their side-The Meek shall inherit the Earth.

Afterall, the Bible says, "God created Man in His image." Ergo, even if taken literally everyone who has, is, or will live, will be in the likeness of God Himself.
Well, people can disagree about the "science" but there is no freedom to distort who Jesus is and what He stands for. You're right that Jesus preached love and compassion (I don't find the word "tolerance" in there, though). Jesus loved all of God's children and died for all of our sins. That doesn't mean he "tolerated" sin. He warned that sin is a one-way ticket to damnation. There is no instance in the Gospels where Jesus confronted or directly commented on homosexuals or homosexual activity. But we do know that while He did not condemn the woman caught in adultery he did counsel her to "go and sin no more." In other words His compassion and love lead Him to warn the woman about the perils of her conduct. So, yes, Jesus loves homosexuals but He warns them that homosexual activity (like any other sexual immorality) endangers the life of their souls. Just saying, since you brought it up.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Arizona High Desert
4,790 posts, read 5,877,517 times
Reputation: 3103
Horsefeathers !!! It's hardwired. Gay men/women may have had wonderful relationships with BOTH parents. Gay men can be hairy brutes who love hard physical labor, and work WITH dad, and mom in a business. A lesbian might spend the day climbing telephone poles, and by night, she crochets dainty doilies. Why do people call homosexuality a disorder ? Some authors just like to talk out their backsides.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Arizona High Desert
4,790 posts, read 5,877,517 times
Reputation: 3103
I know big burly hairy gay bikers who have great relationships with both parents. No absentee dad, and no domineering mom.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Long Beach
2,347 posts, read 2,772,741 times
Reputation: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Well, people can disagree about the "science" but there is no freedom to distort who Jesus is and what He stands for. You're right that Jesus preached love and compassion (I don't find the word "tolerance" in there, though). Jesus loved all of God's children and died for all of our sins. That doesn't mean he "tolerated" sin. He warned that sin is a one-way ticket to damnation. There is no instance in the Gospels where Jesus confronted or directly commented on homosexuals or homosexual activity. But we do know that while He did not condemn the woman caught in adultery he did counsel her to "go and sin no more." In other words His compassion and love lead Him to warn the woman about the perils of her conduct. So, yes, Jesus loves homosexuals but He warns them that homosexual activity (like any other sexual immorality) endangers the life of their souls. Just saying, since you brought it up.
It's a "sin" as defined by man. You're right, we don't know what Jesus said exactly. But some guy in a pointy white hat a thousand years ago said, it was a "sin". Plenty of others cultures tolerated homosexuality just fine. It's the invention of the Abrahamic traditons.

A sin is a very loose idea. I would argue that what we define as "adultery" isn't a sin. It is natural for humans to want to spread their seed. We are built to do that. When one cave man killed another over food or shelter, does that make it a sin? Would they have known the difference? And homosexuality is a natural occurance in the animal kingdom. Ususally perceived in highly evolved animals, believe it or not.

Religion does nothing but muck with natural emotions and instincts. Quoting scripture is like quoting Wikipedia, it isn't an impirical. It's a bunch of old guys opinions fom 2000 years ago, who knew nothing of the world around them.

But Christ first and foremost taught God is Love. Besides every Christian denomination has it's own view on homosexuality. And most are quite tolerant of it. I'm Catholic according to the dogma of the Church it's okay to be gay and that in itself it's not a sin-but the sin begins when one engages in sexual acts. Of course it's the same response to sex out of wedlock and sex for fun rather than procreation. But in Catholicism, when you commit a sin you can just go to the Confessional and be absolved from them, so all's well that ends well. But if you're Epicopal/Anglican or Unitarian it's very okay to be gay and do what you want because as long as you profess Christ as your saviour then you are all set, regardless of what sins you may commit. So even Christianity is divided.

Last edited by lmkcin; 04-28-2010 at 11:11 AM..
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Old 05-08-2010, 08:26 PM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,316,974 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaBMe View Post
The authors of the book cited are actuallly very well credentialed.

Frank Minirth, M.D. holds Doctorates in Medicine and Theology and is a MENSA member

Paul Meier, M.D. did his residency at Duke University

You may not want to agree with them. But, certainly to be open minded, their writing cannot be so easily dismissed.
With another Noah's Ark scam recently in the news, I just found a link between Dr Paul Meier and the 1993 George Jammal Noah's Ark hoax. How bizaare. Dr Paul is apparently a Noah's Ark groupie and actually went on an expedition to find Noah's Ark.

To me, that would be like going on an expedition to find Santa's workshop at the Northpole.

The Incredible Mysteries of Sun Pictures

Well credentialed? How could anyone take anything this "Dr" says seriously?

Last edited by Ceist; 05-08-2010 at 08:35 PM..
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:08 PM
 
Location: TEXAS
378 posts, read 422,886 times
Reputation: 243
Ok, I really don't want to debate this topic, but I'm going to throw something into the mix for those of you who might want to offer an opinion:

Let's say the basic content of the OP is somewhat true . . . that being gay is the result of gender identity disorder or confusion and may not exactly fit the pattern of the OP, but nonetheless is based on gender confusion . . .

Why would that be so difficult for anyone to believe?

Isn't it true that kids take the best and worst character traits from both parents, and isn't it possible that - for some - it all translates to nothing but a great deal of confusion?

Why are you so sure being gay is not a choice?

What about rebellion, the shock factor?

It's my opinion that a LOT of kids/young people today are annoucing they're gay, especially females, for nothing at all but the trendy shock value.

And . . . perhaps the most compelling question: What about bi-sexuals?

Those of you who are SO certain that being gay is determined when a person is born, HOW in the world do you explain bi-sexuality?

My opinion is that being bi-sexual is absolute cheating - it's the avoidance of REAL commitment and dedication, it's double-dipping.

No bashing, please . . . these are legit questions.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:26 PM
 
3,124 posts, read 4,915,993 times
Reputation: 1955
I am fascinated with the culture of anti-semitism that swept Europe and resulted in the holocaust, and the people who either participated in, or turned a blind eye to it. I study it from all different aspects, and I have to say, it's scary how similar the tactics the anti-gay crowd uses are to what happened then.
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