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I always wonder how anyone can say that the early founders were anything but Christian. Take these words of John Adams, who followed Washington as President about our government.
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion” John Adams
“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.”
John Adams
I am sure that one of these quotes from Adams fits progressive reasoning but what about the other. Progressives don't want people to know he ever said that one.
I would like to suggest that both statements are very true but either one alone is just a little truth.
Really?? My history lessons say that it was Washington himself, who declared, "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." Treaty of Tripoli and all
As for your second quote. Please provide a source, or where/when it was said. Most of what I've read point to it being a false quote.
No, Jack I am trying to prove that you don't know much about the early days of the Electoral College and so far you have ducked enough to make my statement look pretty good.
The discussion has nothing to do with the early days of the Electoral College or what I do or do not know about it. It's not even about what the Huffington Post said about former half-term Alaska governor Sarah Palin.
The question is whether the laws of the United States are based on the bible. If they were, then we would expect to find a prescription for the Electoral College, the separation of powers, the Uniform Commercial Code, and the other examples I cited in the bible.
Do you think your pal murphels can find these citations for me? Maybe you could give him a hand.
An argument simply not supported by the historical record.
What part of I-R-R-E-L-E-V-A-N-T do you not understand?
There were 55 different individuals involved in crafting the U.S. Constitution, shall we divine each one's religious philosophies in order to settle what ever question you seem to be stuck on?
One of the 56 spent most of each day asleep as he was over 80 and nearly worn out, but at the end of the last session said that he has finally figured out that the sun above Washington's head on his chair was a rising sun and not a setting sun as he talked about what they had done. Dr. Franklin was probably the most respected man of the group and he hadn't been asleep all that time since he had thought about what that sun was.
Have you read any of Madison's book that was his notes of the Convention? I find it boring except on the days when fights actually erupted and had to be put down.
Can you divine anything other that Christian belief among those men that allowed them to write the greatest document set down by human hand that was still followed pretty close till the end of the 20th century?
I don't want to make Christianity the basis of that group but am ready to argue with any deist about them being Christian gentlemen which had to influence their thinking.
Progs keep coming back with the first 10 Amendments as proof that they didn't want religion built into the government. I wonder when the first 10 Amendments were written, in 1787 along with the rest of the document or later to assuage those states that didn't want to be part of the thing without them. What date were the first 10 written and sent to the states for ratification?
The The Supreme Court building has a number of places where there are images of Moses with the Ten Commandments. As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door and a display of the Ten Commandments is also engraved over the chair of the Chief Justice. Also in the House chamber, above the Gallery door, stands a marble relief of Moses, surrounded by twenty-two other lawgivers.
And another one for you:
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Moses and the 10 Commandments are not prominently featured in the Supreme Court building. Rather, most of the artistic embellishment in the building involves symbolic and allegorical representations of such legal themes as justice, authority, fairness and the like. Most of these representations involve human figures representing the civilizations of Greece and Rome (the building itself was designed to invoke the feeling of the classical Greek temple). If quantity is the measure of importance, the architecture of the Supreme Court favors the classical over the Mosaic tradition of law. Moreover, where Moses and the 10 Commandments are depicted, they are never given positions of exclusive prominence, as we would expect if the intention of the architecture was to establish a connection between the Bible and American law. Rather, the architecture depicts Moses as one of many important lawgivers, and the 10 Commandments as one of many important events in legal history (click here for a more detailed discussion of the subordinate placement of Moses and the 10 Commandments in the architectural fabric of the Supreme Court building).The 10 Commandments and the Supreme Court Building
I don't have to watch it on YouTube since I heard it for real when she said it. I never fail to watch those guys on the nights Palin is going to be with them although I don't watch them often.
It is too bad that people like you have to get things like that one from HuffPo but then . . . . . . . .
- those who know less tend to be more sure, or something along those lines?
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Originally Posted by murphels
I usually don't entertain such ignorance, but where did the law that says you can't kill people come from? Islam?
Interesting question. Seeing how every society with written laws has had some sort of murder prohibition - the Assyrians, the Romans etc. - it's pretty clear that having a law against murder isn't a Judeo-Christian invention.
Howver, the American laws against murder (actually, most American law at the time of the Revolution) have their roots in the Colonial laws, which again spring from English Common Law, which again can be traced back to William the Conqueror/the Bastard (pick your preference) being enough of a badass to not only make declarations of law that covered all of England, but to make them stick. And his courts codified the pre-existing rules against murder, as they had been practiced by tribes/klans for centuries, pre-dating Christianity's arrival in Britain.
Or, in other words: Every civilization with laws have had a law against murder. Those who didn't probably didn't survive long enough to develop the concept of writing.
Insert pretty much the same story for theft and adultery.
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Where did the acceptance to practice WHATEVER religion you wanted to come from?
And this is where the train of thought comes off the rails, plunges over a cliff and catches fire as it plummets towards the raging torrents below.
There is absolutely NO acceptance to practice whatever religion you wnat in the 10 commandments. A full 30-40% (depending on whether you like the Jewish or the Christian version) of the commandments are about God being an exclusive deal with no opt-out clause.
Come on: "I the LORD your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me". Are ypou seriously saying that that is a sound foundation for laws integrating "the acceptance to practice WHATEVER religion you want"?
The ten commandments, beyond the very basic tenets that they share with every recorded law, anywhere, would be a horrible foundation for lawmaking.
I don't know what's scarier: The thought that a serious contender for VP may think the 10 commandments are what we should base law on, the thought that she's ignorant enough to think that law somehow used to be based on the 10C, the thought that she hasn't given it a thought beyond it being a great soundbite or the thought she's completely aware that it's inane, but that her followers will eat it up.
The The Supreme Court building has a number of places where there are images of Moses with the Ten Commandments. As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door and a display of the Ten Commandments is also engraved over the chair of the Chief Justice. Also in the House chamber, above the Gallery door, stands a marble relief of Moses, surrounded by twenty-two other lawgivers.
You forgot to mention that the twenty-two other lawgivers includes non-christian Greek and Roman philosophers, an Egyptian Pharoah, several secular leaders, and Mohammed. Not exactly the best evidence for your "Christian nation" view.
Can you divine anything other that Christian belief among those men that allowed them to write the greatest document set down by human hand that was still followed pretty close till the end of the 20th century?
AGAIN, the discussion isn't about the individual religious beliefs of the delegates to the Constitutional Convention, but rather the utter absence of anything even vaguely relating to Judeo Christian ethics or morality in the Constitution.
The Constitution is a framework of governance of a representative democracy!
So, please, point out a single correlation between Articles I thru VII and either the Bible or the Torah.
Then please be my guest and find the same corollaries in the Amendments.
We get done with that we can get started on U.S. Code.
You forgot to mention that the twenty-two other lawgivers includes non-christian Greek and Roman philosophers, an Egyptian Pharoah, several secular leaders, and Mohammed. Not exactly the best evidence for your "Christian nation" view.
Ms. Palin has finally jumped the shark by announcing the we should "Go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant - they're quite clear - that we would create law based on the God of the bible and the ten commandments."
To be fair, she was directing her rhetoric to the sheeple that flock to Fox News. So, any claim does not need to have any basis in reality, just thin air that is enough to levitate a few fixated at listening to the screen.
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