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By now many of you have probably heard that Barack Obama lunched with the Republicans and went toe to toe with them in pretty fine style last week. I am an Obama supporter, not because I agree with all of his policies (I hate the notion of preventing foreclosures for deadbeat home buyers for instance) but because he seems like an unusually bright, articulate, and collaborative person. I am proud to have him as President, as I would have been proud to have John McCain (an honorable man who ran a poor campaign).
So, Idahoans, as true-blue conservatives, I wonder what you think of the exchange between BO and the Republicans last week. Was it a smackdown for the Dems, a short-term win, long-term loss (he looked better, but alienated his opponents), or is it a sign of healthy bipartisan discussion that bodes well for the future? Or?
(Just so you know, I will post this same query to pretty hard left and moderate boards to see the various reactions)
I am not trolling for political rants here, just a query about whether such candidness make you more or less hopeful for more candid political dialog and collaboration, whatever your personal views. Regardless of your political leanings, Obama showed himself to be engaged, intelligent, and possessing of a sense of humor. But enough about my ideas, what do you all think?
A link from the Economist that mentions the event in passing, but more importantly talks about political polarization. An important topic, IMO.
By now many of you have probably heard that Barack Obama lunched with the Republicans and went toe to toe with them in pretty fine style last week. I am an Obama supporter, not because I agree with all of his policies (I hate the notion of preventing foreclosures for deadbeat home buyers for instance) but because he seems like an unusually bright, articulate, and collaborative person. I am proud to have him as President, as I would have been proud to have John McCain (an honorable man who ran a poor campaign).
Obama is not that articulate, nor is he bright. He needed a Teleprompter just to talk to 6th graders a few weeks ago in Falls Church, VA. But I will give you that he can read better than Bush. His ideas are nothing short of socialist and none of the ideas proposed thus far have differed from what European countries already have in place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
So, Idahoans, as true-blue conservatives, I wonder what you think of the exchange between BO and the Republicans last week. Was it a smackdown for the Dems, a short-term win, long-term loss (he looked better, but alienated his opponents), or is it a sign of healthy bipartisan discussion that bodes well for the future? Or?
Idahoans are more socially conservative than they are fiscally conservative. No state in the union has a fiscally conservative tax structure except for Alaska, New Hampshire, and Wyoming. The rest are socialist in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
I am not trolling for political rants here, just a query about whether such candidness make you more or less hopeful for more candid political dialog and collaboration, whatever your personal views. Regardless of your political leanings, Obama showed himself to be engaged, intelligent, and possessing of a sense of humor. But enough about my ideas, what do you all think?
Dialog and collaboration = nothing. Action is everything and thus far he has been full of inaction short of supporting corporate bailouts.
1) "Sunlight Before Signing"
2) Capital gains tax elimination
3)New American Jobs tax credit
4) Hiatus on 401k penalties
5) "No jobs for lobbyists" (Like anybody believed that one)
6) Earmark Reform
7) Bringing troops home in 16 months
8) Sign "Freedom of Choice Act"
9) $4,000 college credit
10) Transparancy
11) Executive signing statements
Need I continue??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
A link from the Economist that mentions the event in passing, but more importantly talks about political polarization. An important topic, IMO.
There has always been political polarization... this country only has two parties to choose from anyway. Secondly, Americans actually do more harm by voting than by not voting. Voting empowers politicians to exist and if you are any type of a libertarian such as myself, big government is not the solution but the problem. Voting also has no bearing on the outcome...
1) Every state has a different way of counting and administering votes... paper, computer
2) Super delegates
3) Gerrymandering
4) Electoral College/Swing states
5) People registering in multiple states and voting multiple times
6) Registering illegal immigrants to vote
7) Allowing prisoners to vote
8) Polling data from a small pool using controlled questions that will force people to answer a certain way.
9) Broadcasting election results as the voting is taking place.
[quote=jja100;12734323]Obama is not that articulate, nor is he bright. He needed a Teleprompter just to talk to 6th graders a few weeks ago in Falls Church, VA. But I will give you that he can read better than Bush. His ideas are nothing short of socialist and none of the ideas proposed thus far have differed from what European countries already have in place.
President Obama did not use a teleprompter to address the students. He used it afterwards to address a group of journalists. Even the conservative Weekly Standard admits this.
The notion that President Obama's ideas are socialist is quite ridiculous.
Yawn.....Study Alinsky, peruse some progressive history and compare it to the modern day progressive movement. Sift through the layers of the Obama admin and really observe what is being done. Who cares if a person is articulate or not. Castro was articulate, so was Hitler (National socialist Party). Just because a person can string more than three words together in a speech does not impress me. A person should be judged by who his friends are. Reverend Wright? Ouch.
He will be judged by his actions positive or negative. Very simple actually. I have faith in the folks that this country will right itself. I also have faith in the Man Above. You know what else? I don't have any problems because of that faith. Thing's always have a way of working themselves out.
So you think nationalised healthcare, carbon emissions tax, corporate bailouts, and the addition of more government jobs in the form of "green" occupations is conservative or capitalist?
And don't use the Republicans as a comparison because they aren't conservative either with their huge spending and crony capitalist ideology.
I am an Obama supporter, not because I agree with all of his policies... but because he seems like an unusually bright...collaborative person.
One might assume that the two things might be related. I see him as an opportunist, one who happened to offer a certain appeal and one whose rise popularity rose in perfect correlation with every inutterable phrase and anti-libertarian policy that emanated from GW Bush.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
I am proud to have him as President, as I would have been proud to have John McCain (an honorable man who ran a poor campaign).
He is our President and I respect the position regardless. However, respect of the person is another thing entirely. That must be earned and can never be assumed. And nothing reflects more respect than that which is earned by deeds and leadership. Sadly, one year in, and I see a great need for Democrats themselves (no need to even look at the GOP or libertarians) to replace Obama for leading them down the primrose path.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
Obama showed himself to be engaged, intelligent, and possessing of a sense of humor.
I must be watching a different film.
I see a guy sobering up to the reality that selling the vacuous idea of "change" and social utopianism is not the same as managing the world's largest economy, having to deal with dictators, or leading the US forward at a time when her enemies and competitors would like nothing better than the US to relinquish its leadership.
Obama appears to have a good heart and good intentions, but so does my favorite coffee house barista!. However, he was nowhere near qualified to lead this country. His ideas are remarkably stale. His knowledge of economics is the least of any jajor party candidate since before WW2. He is dangerously naive. And worst of all, he suffers from a kind of collegiate hubris which is preventing the necessary humility and openness to superior frameworks that can lead us out of this mess.
When elected, the window of opportunity for Obama was unbelievably large. With some smarts, he would have earned 12+ years for the Democrats in the WH. It is now nearly shut. Instead of showcasing pragmatism, he has proven to be a weak rehash of 1970s Dem machine politics mixed in with the empty sloganeering of today's self-righteous youth. I am disappointed since I believe the GOP needed a longer period of introspection and house cleaning to return to its libertarian roots. Now, that process has been cut short by truly mind-boggling incompetence that has deepened the problems of the GW years.
America needs both of her major parities to be strong and coherent. Obama's policies and failed attempts have all but guaranteed a dramatic shift in the midterm elections. Do not be surprised if Obama loses the Dem nomination in 2012.
One Idahoan Opinion.
S.
Last edited by Sandpointian; 02-03-2010 at 09:05 PM..
I was interested in the geographic variation in responses to this event. Not specific to Idaho, but important to all Americans. I also posted it to the San Francisco and Pittsburgh boards (liberal and moderate, I was thinking), the latter was also moved to the Politics board, but can be linked to from Pittsburgh. Good to see what your fellow citizens think, and to ponder why.
One might assume that the two things might be related. I see him as an opportunist, one who happened to offer a certain appeal and one whose rise popularity rose in perfect correlation with every inutterable phrase and anti-libertarian policy that emanated from GW Bush.
He is our President and I respect the position regardless. However, respect of the person is another thing entirely. That must be earned and can never be assumed. And nothing reflects more respect than that which is earned by deeds and leadership. Sadly, one year in, and I see a great need for Democrats themselves (no need to even look at the GOP or libertarians) to replace Obama for leading them down the primrose path.
I must be watching a different film.
I see a guy sobering up to the reality that selling the vacuous idea of "change" and social utopianism is not the same as managing the world's largest economy, having to deal with dictators, or leading the US forward at a time when her enemies and competitors would like nothing better than the US to relinquish its leadership.
Obama appears to have a good heart and good intentions, but so does my favorite coffee house barista!. However, he was nowhere near qualified to lead this country. His ideas are remarkably stale. His knowledge of economics is the least of any jajor party candidate since before WW2. He is dangerously naive. And worst of all, he suffers from a kind of collegiate hubris which is preventing the necessary humility and openness to superior frameworks that can lead us out of this mess.
When elected, the window of opportunity for Obama was unbelievably large. With some smarts, he would have earned 12+ years for the Democrats in the WH. It is now nearly shut. Instead of showcasing pragmatism, he has proven to be a weak rehash of 1970s Dem machine politics mixed in with the empty sloganeering of today's self-righteous youth. I am disappointed since I believe the GOP needed a longer period of introspection and house cleaning to return to its libertarian roots. Now, that process has been cut short by truly mind-boggling incompetence that has deepened the problems of the GW years.
America needs both of her major parities to be strong and coherent. Obama's policies and failed attempts have all but guaranteed a dramatic shift in the midterm elections. Do not be surprised if Obama loses the Dem nomination in 2012.
One Idahoan Opinion.
S.
Holy .... - I'm glad I agree with that statement because it's lucid, intelligent, and solid enough that I'm not sure I could even argue against it in my own head
That is amazingly well said sand.
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