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Maybe you can spend some time in his jail for jay walking or some other minor misdemeanor. One who got a two month sentence ended up dead.
Hopefully, he won't be "innocent for long". We have standards, even in prisons and jails - at least in the country, I live in.
Jaywalkers? Really? Jaywalkers are not smuggling drugs,and turning Phoenix into the kidnapping capital of the nation.
Are you against any immigration laws at all? Are you for completely open borders, where foreign citizens are granted the same legal rights, freedoms and privileges as US citizens?
I'm just trying to figure out if you are just being argumentative, or if you just do not see that the United States government has an obligation to protect our nation's sovereignty.
Jaywalkers? Really? Jaywalkers are not smuggling drugs,and turning Phoenix into the kidnapping capital of the nation.
Are you against any immigration laws at all? Are you for completely open borders, where foreign citizens are granted the same legal rights, freedoms and privileges as US citizens?
I'm just trying to figure out if you are just being argumentative, or if you just do not see that the United States government has an obligation to protect our nation's sovereignty.
The jaywalking statement was meant to be sarcastic - apparently so missed. See my previous post.
I do not compare Joe's Jail abuses to illegal immigration.
I see them as two different issues. Immigration is a National Issue of concern to all of it's citizens. I simply find Joe Jailer deplorable. Why do criminals smuggle drugs into this country? Because Americans use them. The war on drugs is simply not working.
I am for Immigration Law Reform. I am not for building a fence. We all cheered when the Berlin wall came down, and now we want to put one up. It is the job of Congress to get a real immigration reform bill on the table. If that includes some form of amnesty so be it. Addressing the war on certain drugs also comes to mind.
How I feel about the whole immigration issue can be no better summed up than by our Libertarian Platform: Immigration | Libertarian Party
I have included here some excerpts, as I feel it's sentiments exactly:
Crossing an international border to support your family and pursue dreams of a better life is not an inherently criminal act like rape or robbery. If it were, then most of us descend from criminals. ...the large majority of illegal immigrants are not bad people. They are people who value family, faith and hard work trying to live within a bad system.
In the early 1950s,... dramatically increased the number of visas ... apprehensions at the border dropped 95 percent. By changing the law, we transformed an illegal inflow of workers into a legal flow.
...Mr. de Soto ..."The law must be compatible with how people actually arrange their lives."
Immigration is not the only area of American life where a misguided law has collided with reality....Prohibition turned millions of otherwise law-abiding Americans into lawbreakers and spawned an underworld of moon-shining, boot-legging and related criminal activity. (Sound familiar?) We eventually made the right choice to tax and regulate alcohol rather than prohibit it.
I am for Immigration Law Reform. I am not for building a fence. We all cheered when the Berlin wall came down, and now we want to put one up.
a huge difference: The Berlin wall kept people IN. I'm not aware of a steady flow of Americans trying to get into Mexico.
It is the job of Congress to get a real immigration reform bill on the table. If that includes some form of amnesty so be it. Addressing the war on certain drugs also comes to mind.
Immigration reform is needed, but securing the border is #1. Without a secure border, no immigration reform is possible.
I have included here some excerpts, as I feel it's sentiments exactly:
Crossing an international border to support your family and pursue dreams of a better life is not an inherently criminal act like rape or robbery. If it were, then most of us descend from criminals. ...the large majority of illegal immigrants are not bad people. They are people who value family, faith and hard work trying to live within a bad system.
You don't consider breaking the law of the land a criminal act? Breaking INTO someone's property is not a "criminal act"? How does crossing a rancher's private land, or running through someone's back yard constitute the act of a "good" person? It's nice that illegals value family, faith and hard work. Why do they not also value and respect the law? There IS a way for them to enter legally. Why don't they use it?
...Mr. de Soto ..."The law must be compatible with how people actually arrange their lives."
Oh, so we adjust the law to how people arrange their lives, not expect them to arrange their lives to abide by the law?
The symbol of a wall itself is disturbing, not to mention the harm it would do to the wildlife sanctuaries in the Rio Grande Vally.
Sure, secure the border with the National Guard and our Military. A fix, until we have reformed immigration laws.
Yes, breaking into someone's property is called Robbery. If someone is running across your yard, call the police. Or shoot.
Mexicans are part of our labor force, whether you want to accept it or not. We have changed many laws in our history to adjust to reality or to right a wrong. Nothing new there.
Ronald Reagan gave Amnesty in the 1980's for a reason.
Maybe it needs to be done again, with fines, etc. But this time - revamp the immigration laws to make a bad system a more fair and equatable one.
Finally, don't confuse illegal immigrants who work here,
with the drug cartels. The latter can be mostly blamed
on Americans own consumption habits. If there wasn't
a demand, they would not be here.
The symbol of a wall itself is disturbing, not to mention the harm it would do to the wildlife sanctuaries in the Rio Grande Vally.
"The symbol of a wall itself is disturbing"....that depends on what you think it symbolizes....if you want to compare it to the Berlin Wall, I an see why you would think that. Have you ever been to th border? There are walls all along the border now...they just don't all connect to each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin
Sure, secure the border with the National Guard and our Military. A fix, until we have reformed immigration laws.
It looks like they'll be guarding that border for along time....especially if it actually does help slow things....they'll just put off reform even longer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin
Mexicans are part of our labor force, whether you want to accept it or not. We have changed many laws in our history to adjust to reality or to right a wrong. Nothing new there.
What's new is the size othe problem....history didn't deal with numbers like 12 million illegal immigrants. Have you ever been to a small city or town in Mexico that's not close to the border or a resort area? It's not about just coming here to work temporarily, it's about coming here to live. I've been in homes in Mexico that are nothing more than a one room hut...dirt floor...no utilities...wood burning stove in the corner for heat. Right next door to that could be a typical older two story home you might find in the U.S.....aluminum siding....full utilities...probably concrete floors. A lot of purchases are done through bartering. On Friday and Saturday nights, the world's oldest occupation seems to be in full force in some towns. The quality of life when you're poor here, is much, much better than if you're poor down there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin
Finally, don't confuse illegal immigrants who work here, with the drug cartels. The latter can be mostly blamed
on Americans own consumption habits. If there wasn't
a demand, they would not be here.
The point you keep making...but that's reality.
Just thought I'd tell you this story (no particular reason...just every day life here in AZ)....where I get my haircut, I usually see this group of brothers that are here illegally and we always talk. I noticed one hadn't been around in awhile so, I asked about him. He's serving a two year prison term (I think they said in Kansas City)....knowing that meant he must be in a federal prison, I asked what he did to get there...he got stopped for speeding and they found a illegal handgun in the car. Then they told me this was the 5-6 time he's been caught with an illegal handgun in his car after getting pulled over for a traffic violation....this is the first time he's been put in jail for it though. I'm pretty sure this group of brothers deals drugs (99% sure)....they've been here over a dozen years.
Hint: I was being sarcastic. One person who died had been arrested for shop lifting. Feel Better
• Legally blind and serving a short sentence in Tent City for shoplifting, Brian Crenshaw, 40, was transferred to solitary confinement after a tussle with Arpaio's detention officers. Six days later, he was found comatose in his solitary cell with a broken neck, ruptured intestines, broken toes, and severe internal injuries. Arpaio maintains Crenshaw sustained the injuries when he fell off his four-foot bed. Crenshaw died on March 14, 2005.
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