Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Really? What would you call it when many on the right accuse illegals of taking American jobs, raping and kidnapping American women, bringing diseases to the US, disrespecting the American flag, refusing to assimilate, refusing to learn English, going on welfare, etc..... If this is not anger of the right, I'd hate to see what is.
I think you know that the noisy fringe on either side of the debate are far from representative. For some reason you seem to be expressing a bit of misdirected anger yourself. That door swings both ways.
What about whats good for the country?
I find it hard to believe MOST democrat voters are willing to sell out the country for more votes.
Now the people in Washington DC thats another matter.
Joe, I read the Rasmussen poll results every day and they keep talking about the people and how they think about issues and how far away we are from the political class about things like this. I bet that most Republicans in DC would agree with Dems on amnesty because they all belong to the political class.
What you say is 100% correct in theory. The rage felt by the right is due to frustration and impotence. We seem to be powerless to get our government to stop sitting on it's hands while our jobs go offshore to the lowest bidder and in many cases to immigrants who work cheap. It seems that our own elected officials are more interested in enhancing the bottom line of manufacturers by making it so easy and profitable to move offshore. Lets face it, the demand for stuff isn't going to go away and people will still buy Ipods even at double the price if they were made here. The consumer doesn't care where it was made, they have proven time and again they will pay whatever the going rate for their toys. The argument that companies would lose their market if they manufactured here only holds water if we continue to allow offshore manufacturers to flood our retail shelves with goods that came in with low or no tariffs.
Who is making that argument? (I.e. that "companies would lose their market if they manufactured here.") I've never encountered it before.
The simple point is that for most business, labor is the greatest component of cost, and those companies with the lowest cost structure make more money and are better able to compete on pricing. Sure people would pay twice as much for an Ipod... if there were no other options. The issue is not really access to markets... the issue is that companies that cannot make the money they want actually abandon markets.
Ain't capitalism a great thing? And I say that with no intended irony. A key reason that the US became the worlds largest economy is because it was also, for two centuries, the world's largest free trade zone. And yes, that has always resulted in labor relocation and regional specialization based on things like labor pools and cost. That is how the game is played.
The problem that you have here is actually internal to the right wing. Or at least the part of the right wing that pretends to favor capitalism over competing economic models. Pick your poison; capitalism or protectionism. You can't have both.
And I'm not favoring one over the other. I've got no great personal energy on the issue. I'm just sayin...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder
My idea is that if manufacturers want to make money off of American consumerism, they can either open shop here and employ Americans or they can pay high tariffs. Our money floods offshore and little comes back. At some point something's got to break.
Well, ignoring that you're assuming it's a zero sum game, when its not, great. You are in favor of protectionism and oppose capitalism.
That is an absolutely valid and defensible position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder
Many on the left misinterpret the direction of our anger. We aren't angry at the illegals, we are angry with our own elected officials that sold us out and allowed the illegal problem to become a problem in the first place. You are correct that it's all we have left but if we abandon the only tool left at our disposal, we might as well just give up.
Many on the right also misinterpret the direction of your anger. This is because it is silly to pretend that everybody is mad at the same thing. Any generalization is therefore going to be false automatically.
Some of you are angry at the illegals, and some of you are angry about our own elected officials, and some are angry with both, and some are angry at neither.
I for one do not care who you are angry at. I just would prefer to have people make better decisions. And decisions made while pissed off are rarely optimal.
Who is making that argument? (I.e. that "companies would lose their market if they manufactured here.") I've never encountered it before.
The simple point is that for most business, labor is the greatest component of cost, and those companies with the lowest cost structure make more money and are better able to compete on pricing. Sure people would pay twice as much for an Ipod... if there were no other options. The issue is not really access to markets... the issue is that companies that cannot make the money they want actually abandon markets.
Ain't capitalism a great thing? And I say that with no intended irony. A key reason that the US became the worlds largest economy is because it was also, for two centuries, the world's largest free trade zone. And yes, that has always resulted in labor relocation and regional specialization based on things like labor pools and cost. That is how the game is played.
The problem that you have here is actually internal to the right wing. Or at least the part of the right wing that pretends to favor capitalism over competing economic models. Pick your poison; capitalism or protectionism. You can't have both.
And I'm not favoring one over the other. I've got no great personal energy on the issue. I'm just sayin...
Well, ignoring that you're assuming it's a zero sum game, when its not, great. You are in favor of protectionism and oppose capitalism.
That is an absolutely valid and defensible position.
Many on the right also misinterpret the direction of your anger. This is because it is silly to pretend that everybody is mad at the same thing. Any generalization is therefore going to be false automatically.
Some of you are angry at the illegals, and some of you are angry about our own elected officials, and some are angry with both, and some are angry at neither.
I for one do not care who you are angry at. I just would prefer to have people make better decisions. And decisions made while pissed off are rarely optimal.
Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. I was actually agreeing with you.
Imported cars depress American wages
Imported clothes depress American wages
Imported food depress American wages
Outsourced call centers depress American wages
There are a lot of things that depress American wages. Why the concern over imported labor?
Almost every rational person I know, either liberal or conservative, agrees that illegal immigration is out of control and needs to be addressed. But it's the irrational ones who scream the loudest about how to do that.
It seems like such a common sense issue.
Millions breaking into our country illegally..
Our schools,hospitals,social services pay the price.
Wages are being pushed down by cheap labor.
There are many issues economically and well as culturally.
Majority of Americans favor tighter control of Immigration.
So why arent the left-leaning speaking out?
Obama and a solid majority of Democrats are for pushing Amnesty.
Its not hard to see why, millions giving amnesty would become..
Democrat voters.
You answered your own question. When people think in black and white, like you did, with partisan politics on the plate, you can't work together to find an acceptable solution (and don't mistake an acceptable solution to be the perfect solution that pleases all sides).
I see two pieces in your post (as the colors represent). Amnesty would actually address your concerns, although I don't think that by itself is the right answer either.
The second part starts with the premise that, if given amnesty, they would become democratic voters. Now, that will be true if the people getting amnesty know that they have been marginalized and villified by the republicans (which, is generally true). They are treated as sub-humans to begin with, and no human with any dignity will show any favors. Perhaps, republicans should be more respectful, as opposed to being hostile, and then this will be less of a worry.
The reality is, republican think tank is wary of a growing majority which consists of minorities, as they currently stand: Hispanic form 14% of the population, Blacks 12% and Asians 4%. These tend to be supportive of the democrats, largely due to the historical perspective and current practices of the republican party. For way too long, the US laws favored immigration from Europe, going into early part of the 20th century, while immigration was suppressed from other regions. Reminds me of a case (1926) where an Indian immigrant claimed equal rights, and had to work on the ground of proving that he was a Caucasian. The Supreme court agreed alright, but inserted that he didn't look white, marking the differentiation between Caucasian/White and Caucasian/Non-White.
Now, when the same attitude is practiced blatantly by a party, or a politician, his/her view will be seen with these historical perspectives, and as a result, favor more liberal/progressive ideas.
Instead of worrying about who they would vote for, it is better to treat everybody as as humans, as being born equal and discuss for solutions. Which would mean, keeping partisan politics out of it. Now, I can see why politicians don't want that. The problem is, people who actually buy what they are told (often what they want to hear).
I don't agree, open immigration is what made this country great.
By open immigration do you mean open borders anarchy?
Some amount of immigration is good but shouldnt a nation..
Control WHO comes in and WHY?and how many?
This isnt 1910 and we are no longer a young nation.
The American people never voted for open borders and wasnt..
Asked.Ask the many people who left California how they feel..
For way too long, the US laws favored immigration from Europe, going into early part of the 20th century, while immigration was suppressed from other regions. Reminds me of a case (1926) where an Indian immigrant claimed equal rights, and had to work on the ground of proving that he was a Caucasian. The Supreme court agreed alright, but inserted that he didn't look white, marking the differentiation between Caucasian/White and Caucasian/Non-White.
Although the 1924 Immigration Act, which was supported by Republicans, put severe quotas on Southern and Eastern European immigration and banning Asian immigration while allowing for unlimited immigration from the Western Hemisphere - Mexico and the Caribbean included.
The case you're referring to is Singh v. California, in which the Indian in question claimed that he was "Aryan" and Caucasian he was white. (In that decision, the SCOTUS defined "white" as "European" and stated that the term "Aryan" was meaningless - although that didn't keep later racists from using the term.) There were countless other cases in the early 20th century in which the SCOTUS determined which nationalities were white and which weren't. Arabs from Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine were considered "white", those from the Arabian Peninsula and Gulf regions weren't considered "white". The notion of the SCOTUS ruling who's white and who's not seems ridiculous to us now.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
