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Old 05-24-2010, 05:04 PM
 
2,085 posts, read 2,462,995 times
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Obama does what he wants, not what he promises...
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,733,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder View Post
To a certain extent I agree but the reality is that two administrations have been treating the war as if it were a game. While quitting is irresponsible, I feel it's the lesser of two evils. What price are we willing to pay to win?
And I don't see the reality you claim. There is no winning with the engagement in Afghanistan. However, we can help Afghanis regain control at least be closer to the lifestyle they were getting accustomed to, before the Soviet invasion and subsequent rule by Taliban. It won't be easy. But, we should have, perhaps, kept ourselves out in the 1980s. But we were too scared of the commies ruling the world on the other side of the planet and had to poke our nose in.

Now, the people we supported are the ones who are most likely to threaten national security HERE. And it all begins and ends with making a country like Pakistan safer. That ain't going to be easy either. Turning a blind eye towards the debacle that was Al Qaeda in the 1980s didn't bode well. I don't expect any different results this time around.

I may agree on taking a difference course than what we hear and read about, but quitting is simply being irresponsible and short sighted.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Marion, IA
2,793 posts, read 6,107,288 times
Reputation: 1613
Can somebody tell me what we are doing in Afghanistan? Are we still looking for Bin Laden? Why are we pissing away money and lives everyday fighting a bunch of cavemen.

We need this "war" like a hole in the head.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:36 PM
 
8,853 posts, read 5,329,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waianaegirl View Post
Obama does what he wants, not what he promises...
While I am no fan of BO, I am not certain he actually promised to pull out of Afghanistan. Am I in error?

With regards to Iraq, I don't know why he didn't just follow the already agreed-upon withdrawal timetable and keep his lip shut. There was no reason for him to have said anything, all he had to do was leave it alone.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,433,551 times
Reputation: 21673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder View Post
Simply quit. Sometimes the only way to win is to not play.

It's clear that we are not going to bomb them into the stone age though that would be a clear and decisive victory.
And who would "win"? Would the Afghan people win if we "bomb them to the Stone Age", or would they be killed in such large numbers they would be "pacified"?

And another thing: Since the Taliban never attacked the United States (or Saddam Hussein for that matter) the rest of the world does not support us either. They did once in Afghanistan, in the early days, but we botched it so badly to concentrate on Iraq they now realize its lost.

I guess wars of aggression that are unjustified in the eyes of the world, and not supported by the people, are inherently doomed to failure.
There was no "victory" in Vietnam for this reason, U.S. involvement was never widely supported by the people of Vietnam/Iraq/A-stan (unless you profit somehow ) There is nothing to "win".
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:02 AM
 
4,127 posts, read 5,053,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
And I don't see the reality you claim. There is no winning with the engagement in Afghanistan. However, we can help Afghanis regain control at least be closer to the lifestyle they were getting accustomed to, before the Soviet invasion and subsequent rule by Taliban. It won't be easy. But, we should have, perhaps, kept ourselves out in the 1980s. But we were too scared of the commies ruling the world on the other side of the planet and had to poke our nose in.

Now, the people we supported are the ones who are most likely to threaten national security HERE. And it all begins and ends with making a country like Pakistan safer. That ain't going to be easy either. Turning a blind eye towards the debacle that was Al Qaeda in the 1980s didn't bode well. I don't expect any different results this time around.

I may agree on taking a difference course than what we hear and read about, but quitting is simply being irresponsible and short sighted.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Of course we shouldn't have been there in the first place but that's not relevant. Though history can be re-written, the past can't be undone. Since you don't like the idea of quitting and are obviously bright enough to realize that our current tact isn't and cannot ever work, Are you suggesting we actually go in there a fight the war for real? If so, I would agree but we both know that isn't going to happen which leaves us the choice between another humiliating defeat or a nice long occupation. It's fairly safe to say that actually winning is something our own government won't allow and given the only two remaining options of quitting or becoming yet another fallen empire trying to support an occupational army, I still say quit.

Last edited by Joe_Ryder; 05-25-2010 at 08:02 AM.. Reason: pour spellin
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:07 AM
 
4,127 posts, read 5,053,710 times
Reputation: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
And who would "win"? Would the Afghan people win if we "bomb them to the Stone Age", or would they be killed in such large numbers they would be "pacified"?

And another thing: Since the Taliban never attacked the United States (or Saddam Hussein for that matter) the rest of the world does not support us either. They did once in Afghanistan, in the early days, but we botched it so badly to concentrate on Iraq they now realize its lost.

I guess wars of aggression that are unjustified in the eyes of the world, and not supported by the people, are inherently doomed to failure.
There was no "victory" in Vietnam for this reason, U.S. involvement was never widely supported by the people of Vietnam/Iraq/A-stan (unless you profit somehow ) There is nothing to "win".
I'm in favor of quitting. But, to answer your question with brutal honesty, I care about America much more than Afghanistan. No one wins in war but the victor loses less.
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:12 AM
 
Location: PA
5,562 posts, read 5,665,861 times
Reputation: 1962
Obama campaigned on a Bush policy and a clinton policy and really nothing has changed other then the continued destruction of individual liberty and our bankrupt nation.
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