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Thanks ... I'm not sure where to even start .. unlike a lot of discussions on this board that become "link duals", this is a culmination of several years of reading, listen, viewing many different sources and points of view.
As I said previously, I was at one time a staunch supporter of Israel, and in retrospect, I know now that it was due to the bias in the mainstream media that colored my views. We have historically received commentary that was very slanted .. not just about Israel .. but in all geopolitical affairs in general, including the activities of our own government that the majority would highly disapprove of, if truth were known.
Of course, the obligatory charge of "antisemitism" has been the major weapon used in Israel's propaganda war, though that shield is beginning to lose effectiveness, as people are beginning to reject this nonsense in light of Israel's increasing belligerence, aggression, and overt atrocities committed. The claims of "Self defense" are becoming more and more incredible to the world at large ... and the underdog status of a tiny country struggling to survive in the midst of Arab nations hell bent on their destruction has shifted to view Israel as the highly armed, unscrupulous bully that they have always been.
Cutting through the propaganda is no easy task, especially in such highly charged, complex conflicts where one side pretty much owns the American media either literally, or figuratively. And all of the opinions of the pro-Israeli side are constructed upon half truths and outright lies.
One of the most damning .. and one the pro-Israelis don't want to deal with is the fact that Hamas is a Mossad creation (similarly to how Al Qaeda is a CIA creation). This is a VERY IMPORTANT matter given that Hamas has been Israel's ace in the hole whenever international pressure pushes Israel toward a sustainable solution for peace. Hamas was created with the express purpose of challenging Arafat and the PLO's exclusive hold on power, and to be the major roadblock to the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Such a thing as this sounds preposterous to the average TV news educated expert ... but those with a more thorough understanding of the shadowy world of intelligence and behind the headlines geopolitical maneuvering, recognizes this type of problem-reaction-solution for what it is .. very common, and very prevalent.
So the next time the pro-Israeli side uses the "Hamas refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist", remind them that Hamas is nothing more than a proxy for Israel's political agenda of NEVER ALLOWING A PALESTINIAN STATE to be established.
Palestinians had the opportunity to have their own state when Israel was formed, but they wanted all the land or nothing, so they refused. I am not so sure about the Hammas being a creation of Mossad, any proof other than that of a French reporter. I have never heard that Al Qaedea is a cia creation.
I guess, these folks don't matter to you, and must be lying or at least believe the story the government presented to everybody in collaboration with the Israelis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aveojohn
Palestinians had the opportunity to have their own state when Israel was formed, but they wanted all the land or nothing, so they refused.
Palestinians were opposed to giving away their land. You would be too. If Hispanics in AZ demanded their own country, UN intervenes and does it, you won't have any problems with it, right?
Quote:
I am not so sure about the Hammas being a creation of Mossad, any proof other than that of a French reporter. I have never heard that Al Qaedea is a cia creation.
Then you should try to find out, what exactly is Al Qaeda and how did it come about. You may start getting the answers. As for Hamas, Israel's enemy at the time was PLO. And they created this competition between PLO and Hamas by promoting the latter (although, Israelis blame the USA, and specifically Bush Jr, for Hamas).
Palestinians were opposed to giving away their land. You would be too. If Hispanics in AZ demanded their own country, UN intervenes and does it, you won't have any problems with it, right?
There were 4 Jewish communities in the land of Israel all the time in the cities of Jerusalem, Hebron, Tiberias & Zefad/Sefad. So the Jews had/have rights to the land all the time. Most of the Palestinian Arabs come from families that moved to Palestine after the first waves of Jewish immigration from Europe started in the mid-1800s. These Jewish immigrants developed the land and created an economy & jobs for the Palestinian Arabs to find work in the area.
There was never a Palestinian state at any time in history. But there was a Jewish state of Israel during Biblical times.
According to the Balfour Declaration of 1917 (which you mention in an earlier post) a Jewish homeland is to be established in the area of "Palestine" without effecting the rights of the other inhabitants.
The British Mandate of Palestine included the land East of the Jordan river. This land is now the country of Jordan and the majority of the Jordanian population is Palestinian.
I guess, these folks don't matter to you, and must be lying or at least believe the story the government presented to everybody in collaboration with the Israelis.
Palestinians were opposed to giving away their land. You would be too. If Hispanics in AZ demanded their own country, UN intervenes and does it, you won't have any problems with it, right?
Quote:
Then you should try to find out, what exactly is Al Qaeda and how did it come about. You may start getting the answers. As for Hamas, Israel's enemy at the time was PLO. And they created this competition between PLO and Hamas by promoting the latter (although, Israelis blame the USA, and specifically Bush Jr, for Hamas).
GuynTexas is making that claim and you agree with him, so it is up to you to provide the proof of this.
The Hamas is not a creation of the Israeli Mossad. It is is a Palestinian terrorist organization with a political wing.
(See Hamas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
The Palestinian Arabs had the opportunity to achieve statehood in 1947/8 after the UN decided on a Partition Plan of the area, which they decided not to do.
(See United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
In any case in reality Jordan is a Palestinian state. Jordanian land is part of the former British Mandate Palestine area/land. (More than 76% of the British Mandate of Palestine was east of the Jordan river and was known as "Transjordan".) Besides Jordan's population has a Palestinian majority.
Unless you are a native american, jews have far more right ot live in israel than you have to live in texas.
And please don't go into the Khazar bs from neo nazi and islamist websites.
It really is surprising how much shear stupidity there is. The "Khazar BS"?
The SUPREME LIE .... which proves stupid people outnumber the intelligent ones by a huge margin. The Israelis are EUROPEANS ... NOT SEMITIC JEWS. And you don't need Wikipedea ... or a pile of flagrantly false text books ... just LOOK AT THEM! They are as WHITE AS I AM!! The Semitic peoples have darker, olive toned skin ... JUST LIKE THE PALESTINIANS DO ...
These European "jews" are not semitic and have no more of an historical claim to the lands of Palestine than they do freaking Hawaii, and the entire conflict boils down and can be traced back to the bloody British ... surprise surprise .... who decided to give away land they did not have to give away, to another who had no right to the land.
The Kharars adopted Judaism around the 8th Century, long after the establishment of both Christianity and Islam. In fact, they were pagans of the Hun dynasty who decided to become monotheistic, and consulted with leaders of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and chose the Jewish faith.
The bottom line is .. they have no ancestral link to the Jews of the Bible, and all such claims are simply the continuation of the lies that make up Israel's foundation.
It really is surprising how much shear stupidity there is. The "Khazar BS"?
The SUPREME LIE .... which proves stupid people outnumber the intelligent ones by a huge margin. The Israelis are EUROPEANS ... NOT SEMITIC JEWS. And you don't need Wikipedea ... or a pile of flagrantly false text books ... just LOOK AT THEM! They are as WHITE AS I AM!! The Semitic peoples have darker, olive toned skin ... JUST LIKE THE PALESTINIANS DO ...
These European "jews" are not semitic and have no more of an historical claim to the lands of Palestine than they do freaking Hawaii, and the entire conflict boils down and can be traced back to the bloody British ... surprise surprise .... who decided to give away land they did not have to give away, to another who had no right to the land.
The Kharars adopted Judaism around the 8th Century, long after the establishment of both Christianity and Islam. In fact, they were pagans of the Hun dynasty who decided to become monotheistic, and consulted with leaders of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and chose the Jewish faith.
The bottom line is .. they have no ancestral link to the Jews of the Bible, and all such claims are simply the continuation of the lies that make up Israel's foundation.
Most of the Palestinian Arabs come from families that moved to Palestine after the first waves of Jewish immigration from Europe started in the mid-1800s. These Jewish immigrants developed the land and created an economy & jobs for the Palestinian Arabs to find work in the area.
Total lie ... the modern day Israeli Jews are not semitic .. whereas the Palestinian Arabs are. The Palestinians are far more closely related to Biblical Jews than these IMPOSTORS !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61
There was never a Palestinian state at any time in history. But there was a Jewish state of Israel during Biblical times.
More nonsense ... there was never a region, state, country or city ever named "Israel". Never until 1948. This 1948 "Israel" was created in the middle of the region named "Palestine", which was rooted in the Philistines who conquered that region. And you can actually look at old maps where it is actually shown as "Palestine". You'll never find a map showing Israel prior to the 20th Century.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61
According to the Balfour Declaration of 1917 (which you mention in an earlier post) a Jewish homeland is to be established in the area of "Palestine" without effecting the rights of the other inhabitants.
My family and I will move into your backyard, build a home, and not interfere with your rights ... aside from bulldozing your home once we've completed ours ... then run you out of town. But, hey ... just a little inconvenience for you .. no big deal, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61
The British Mandate of Palestine included the land East of the Jordan river. This land is now the country of Jordan and the majority of the Jordanian population is Palestinian.
Sorry to break the news to you ... "Lord" Balfour took his title way too seriously ... the British have no right to give away other's land ... though that never stopped them before as they claimed to own every piece of land their ships could manage to reach ...
No Biblical rights exist ... not the "Lord's" promise to the Jews ... just another of the many British debacles of annexing other people's property, this time by Lord Balfore.
Video I saw had the Commandos being attacked straight off the rope.
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