Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (lawyers, Barack Obama, how much)

[Huckleberry3911948]

its a function of GNP, for britain and france 10.5% for canada 7 1/2%, for america 17%.
if GNP is rotten any medical expenditure is lousy. canada GNP is declining.
see link
http://www.diemer.ca/Docs/Diemer-TenHealthCareMyths.htm
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/pvd/Primer.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_..._United_States

[KevK]

Originally Posted by Pretzelogik

Hey but the Dcats and master magician Mr O is going to have free medical care for all and save money on top of it......yeah right!

I am 100% in favour of universal health care and the single payer system that Canada and the UK have BUT I also agree with the reforms they are discussing- especially the idea of making people pay at least a little of the tab when they go to the doctor. The problem is NOT universal health care. The problem is FREE universal health care. When something is free, people tend to devalue and over use it. If people have to pay $40 or so when they take little Junior to the doctor because he has a runny nose, they will stop and ask themselves if a trip to a doctor for a runny nose is really necessary or if maybe a trip to Shoppers Drug Mart for a cold remedy might be a less expensive way to go. That is why I think that, at the very least some co pays and/or deductibles are essential to making the system solvent and I am glad to see Canada heading in that direction.

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

its a function of GNP, for britain and france 3% for canada 7 1/2%, for america 15%.
if GNP is rotten any medical expenditure is lousy. canada GNP is declining.
see link
10 Health Care Myths: Understanding Canada's Medicare Debate

Those numbers are actually pretty damning. For 15% of GDP we should be getting a much much better outcome.

[jmking]

Originally Posted by sanrene

No, it just proves what many of us have been saying about the socialist nanny state - it is collapsing under it's outlandish obligations.

And ours is doing what exactly? Do you realize 10s of millions of Americans and companies payout monthly premiums equalling mortgage payments? How is exactly is this not going to collapse?

[KevK]

Originally Posted by nononsenseguy

There will be no new drugs developed. Companies will not invest in the R&D if there is no profit in it.

When will people learn that it is the profit motive that is what brings any new product to market. We wouldn't even have our computers, it there was no profit in personal computers.

People keep decrying "profit" as something evil. But it is the reason we enjoy our high standard of living (soon to be much lower, thanks to B.H.O.)

Drug companies must be allowed to make a profit, or we will all be losers.

That is BS. The drug companies are always "allowed" to make a profit. In fact, when they develop a new drug they often make HUGE profits for the first 7 years it is on the market. The government also pays them handsomely for R&D for classes of drugs for rare illnesses that would not otherwise be profitable.

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by swagger

B***S***.

Try actually visiting a third world country some time. Check out a local clinic in Somalia or Ghana, then come back and tell us we have "a third world quality healthcare system."

Your perspective is WAY out of whack, and I'm getting tired of people reciting this complete, total, utter crap that we're a "third world country" when it comes to health care. You need to think for yourself and stop getting your ideas from people that want us to become France.

Other countries have less government involvement in the healthcare, some have more involvement.

Where all healthcare providers and associated fields, are government employees. Those countries are going broke fast.

Those that have hardly any government involvement have to actually compete for business. They have to provide better, quality and better service than the other guy, to stay in business. Their pricing gets competitive too. It is not a perpetual machine, raising cost to feed it.

[KevK]

Originally Posted by nononsenseguy

You are sadly uninformed. You've bought the lies. We are all going to wind up on the government plan, that was the idea from the beginning (Obama's own words, he "has always" been in favor of "a single payer" system). There will be no more private insurance. It's in the bill.

One can only hope

[KevK]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

You are correct there is nothing that specifically eliminates private insurance however this bill can make being in the insurance business less than profitable specifically the section dealing with they cannot deny anyone insurance. It's common tactic politicians use to get around outlawing or changing something outright, instead they make it too expensive or in this case unprofitable.

This mandate can only work if everyone is paying into the system, the penalties are small for most and even unenforceable because as of now they will be collecting this fine through your tax return. Doesn;t take a genius to realize you can adjust your withholding so there isn't anything left to collect on.

Can you truthfully tell me people won't take advantage of it? And once it becomes apparent it's failing because people are not buying insurance how many politicians are going to support amending this to put sme teeth into the fines. How many are going to be willing to jail people for not paying it? The answer of course is none.

The insurance companies will stop selling and the government can conveniently come in for the rescue.

I am hopeful that the scenario you laid out here is EXACTLY what happens/

[marmac]

Originally Posted by Jaggy001

There is something really sad about some of the posters on this thread (you know who you are).

They sit there rubbing their hands with glee at the idea of someone elses system failing as if, by magic, that makes our own broken system all okay

Wrong !

What many of us don't want to see is the US trying to copy --systems failing.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by jmking

How is exactly is this not going to collapse?

Correct and we're on much more dangerous path now because the HHS analysis of this law suggests cost will increase for those paying into the system. This bill adds a lot of people to the insurance system that cannot afford insurance now, someone will have to pay for it and that will be the dwindling part of our population that supports the system.

This law fails to do the one fundamental thing that needed to be done which is address escalating costs.