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Old 06-02-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,904,518 times
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That sounds like a reasonable salary considering that New Jersey is a very expensive place to live. How does that salary compare to a software engineer or a lawyer with similar experience? Why does the right wing think that all government employees should take a lower salary than a similar private sector job? Do they really want some illegal immigrant running the water disinfection unit at the public water supply plant? I don’t!

If the state wants to save some money why don't they discontinue all the special education programs and let the parents of these unfortunate kids foot the entire bill for their education in even more expensive private schools or at home.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:18 AM
 
631 posts, read 721,543 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex View Post
If taxes werent so high in that state their pay would go a lot further.

I think they make more then a fair wage for getting so many mths off a year

I agree the taxes in NJ are horrible and I think people who don't live in New Jersey don't realize how much everything cost. Insurance, taxes and property values are much higher here then they are in most states. Would I think 86,000 a year in North Carolina is too much... yes. In NJ I think its fair, and lets not forget she's been teaching for 17 years.

NJ's biggest problem is the amount of small boroughs with complete governments setup (police, fire. school etc) in each one. Many of these could be trimmed to save tons of money. Also the state took over many of the local county roles about 10 years ago. Since then property taxes went up 70 percent.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Partisanship Is An Intellectual/Emotional Handicap
1,851 posts, read 2,157,260 times
Reputation: 1082
I lived most of my life in NJ.

I still have family and friends in NJ.

yes it's expensive.

But $86,000 a year is definitely a salary to live comfortably by.

Unless one is living and spending foolishly.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Aloha, Oregon
1,089 posts, read 657,188 times
Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
You left off "Today" in a conversation about cutting her $83,000 + benefits.
According to the following chart the range for High School teacher is $43,210 - $59,888.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=High_School_Teacher/Salary/by_State
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:35 AM
 
631 posts, read 721,543 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMyTree View Post
I lived most of my life in NJ.

I still have family and friends in NJ.

yes it's expensive.

But $86,000 a year is definitely a salary to live. comfortably by

Unless one is living and spending foolishly.

It sure is, 86k is fair and you should be able to live comfortably by. I think we are focusing to much on what one teacher makes. The average in NJ is between 56 - 63K. As a former resident of NJ, don't you agree its hard to get by with only 63k a year?
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:37 AM
 
4,814 posts, read 3,855,520 times
Reputation: 1120
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
Across the country, this is true. This guy is really throwing down the gauntlet and speaking the TRUTH about public schools and the unions that ride roughshod over politicians, parents and students.

RealClearPolitics - Video - Christie: Students Trapped By "Selfish, Greedy" & "Disgraceful" Teacher Unions

In NJ $24,000/pupil?

Incredible.

That $24,000 is needed to pay for the lavish benefits, pensions and health care of the unions.
I LOVE that fat boy!!!!!!
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:37 AM
 
13 posts, read 13,337 times
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this has nothing to do with how much the teacher is making. Very few private companies offer DB pension plans anymore, and almost none offer full medical without making you pay 10-50% (at least) of the cost. Public workers in NJ, including teachers, have had this benefit until recently, in the case of non-teacher public workers; teachers continue to enjoy this fully. Now, why have private companies moved away from these sorts of things (and towards 401(k) and 401(m) plans)? Costs have risen and risen and risen, and the future costs are similarly exponentially increasing. Private plans are also required to be funded according to ERISA standards. Public workers have *no* competition, so they are paid what they are paid without any direct market forces acting on their salaries or benefits. Pension plans also do not need to be funded in any sensible way; states just pay for the things each year as the bills come in. Obviously this is unsustainable, and, lo and behold, the state finally is on the verge of bankruptcy from it.

This has nothing to do with what the teacher "should" make, as what you "should" make cannot be successfully determined outside of what the market will give you (unless you are a believer in the efficiency of command and control, communist style governments). As Gov Christie loves to say, "In what other business do you have automatic raises every year? In what other business are layoffs based on how long you've had your job, instead of how good you are at your job? In what other business do workers pay almost nothing for their pension plan and nothing at all for their medical insurance?".

Efficiency is driven by competition and scarcity of resources. Give schools less money, see how they deal with it (again, as christie calculated, if teachers would pay 1.5% of their medical insurance, nobody would need to be fired... it's up to the unions to concede this, and stop living in a fantasy world where the state's money is infinite). Christie is a true fiscal consevative, and for the time being, my idol and a man who can bring a capitalist/business common sense mentality to the state.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:40 AM
 
4,814 posts, read 3,855,520 times
Reputation: 1120
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
The more I hear from this guy, the more interested I am in him running for President.
The "dark horse"? I'm all for it!!!

Remember when he was running for Governor and the rumor mill was that he would not govern well? He has the last laugh, thus far!
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:46 AM
 
631 posts, read 721,543 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by RepubCarrier View Post
Christie is a true fiscal conservative, and for the time being, my idol and a man who can bring a capitalist/business common sense mentality to the state.

See, this is where I get confused. Christie made ALOT of cuts, not only to school aid for towns but other aid in different areas. I got the estimate for my property taxes yesterday in the mail for the third quarter, and its up by 12 percent, 1100 dollar increase for the year. I thought fiscal conservatives where all about lower taxes and less spending. All I see is my town closing 2 schools, closing parks and my taxes going up 1100 a year. My town is a die hard rebuplican town, it's been run by conservatives for the past 20 years, so its not like the dems ran it to the ground. So again why are my services decreasing and my taxes going up?
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:53 AM
 
4,814 posts, read 3,855,520 times
Reputation: 1120
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMyTree View Post
He's right to a degree. A lot of the teachers and their Unions are a huge part of the problem.

Certainly not the sole problem. But a significant part of the problem.

I know several NJ teachers and one of used to work part time for us. And he's a major jack-off. I've never seen such a selfish, self-absorbed, singularly self-interested, juvenile, arrogant, narcissistic bag of wind....in my life.

We had to fire his ass because he did almost nothing. And when he did do any work, he obnoxiously demanded that he would only do what he wanted to do. Not what the job detailed and required him to do. It was ridiculous. A 50 year old man behaving like an obnoxious, bratty 11 year old.

Every other teacher I know has a very similar attitude, but they're no where near as extreme as that guy. but it is that same entitlement complex.

I know teachers are very important and should be paid a good salary and half good benefits. I know there are many other contributing factors.

I know many parents in this country are irresponsble, lazy, inaccountable fools who don't do anything to help and progress their children's education.

They expect teachers to accomplish it all during school time. Shame on them!

But these teachers and their Unions: their entitlement complexes and their hollier than thou (I can't be touched) attitudes; they're not helping the situation. they're making it worse.
Agreed! I know one thing that people are concerned with on having government intervention with vouchers, etc., is they may possibly dictate the curriculum choice. If we have education of choice, following the required core subjects, we should also have freedom to choose the best curriculum for each subject. Nothing mandated.

And a good teacher, in love with teaching, is to be prized!

They just need to remember that they teach in the field of their expertise and if they had to take a test across the whole educational spectrum, the largest percentage would fail. Therefore, they need to stop puffing out their chests.

Any person could pick up a subject, study it, have a teacher's manual and teach, if they had a mind to do it. There is a plethora of information and resources to be had!

I'm glad for teachers, but please, you can be replaced!
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