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Old 06-06-2010, 08:25 PM
 
12,997 posts, read 13,638,147 times
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I was fortunate enough to have a very good high school history teacher who knew the ins and outs of taxes throughout the ages. He explained to us that in every society there are three classes: the poor, the rich and the middle. The poor don't pay taxes -- the old you can't get blood from a turnip addage applies. Here's a secret though: neither do the rich. They've always found its cheapter just to curry some favor and/or intimidate whatever form of government is fashionable in their particular society and the pass the buck onto those of us who do get stuck with the bill -- the great middle. We're rich enough to tax, poor enough to not be able to purchase enough influence ot get out of it.

In America, I'd say the majority of those who aren't paying income tax are too poor, as other posters have noted. However, there's probably a good 10 to 20 percent of fabulously wealthy people whose pockets are plenty deep enough to tap who aren't pay either. Instead, they're paying a pittance of their incomes to fund special interest groups who come up with greater and greater tax shelters, loopholes, government bailouts and rebates and other goodies (the middle class pays for).

Too bad too many of us in the middle are too busy hating the guvmint and the l'beruls to concentrate on figuring out how to use our democractic institutions and resources to get these rich folks to pay a fairer share for the common goods we all use and need. I know I'd like some tax relief. However, unlike the teabaggers I know how to actually get some: hint, it's not by squeezing the poor.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:42 PM
 
12,997 posts, read 13,638,147 times
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Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Old FDR's Braintrust was not made up of idiots, but they were followed by lots of that kind.
And yet if those "idiots" would have had their way and SS was left alone to work the way it was supposed to there would be a 3 trillion dollar fund for SS. I bet if SS were left alone to function as those "morons" meant it to function, it would have grown to the point where Americans could have been paid benefits from the interest alone on that fund, and the collection of income tax dollars could have been scaled way back.

If SS was designed by "idiots" I'd like to see a lot more of that kind of stupidity in government and a lot less of these smart guys who decided to cut income tax to the bone in the 80s and then increase the raid the Social Security fund (and increase SS taxes) to make up for the shortfall.

Last edited by WestCobb; 06-06-2010 at 08:51 PM..
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:43 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,004,288 times
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Originally Posted by cokatie View Post
I just heard that statistic on a Sunday morning news program today and was shocked. What about the other 53%? How do they get away with it? I'll be honest: The IRS scares me! I would not DREAM of not filing - and I was under the assumption that it was illegal to do so.

If this statistic isn't true, I would love to know. Also, are you one of the 53% and if so, why don't you file (and personally, I would love to know how you get away with it!)?
They're filing their income tax returns. Their deductions and write offs result in refunds.

The rest are so poor, they qualify for tax credits.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:49 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,004,288 times
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Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
What are the wealthy doing that the middle class can not??
Creating expensive tax shelters. For example, the middle class can't afford buy a mansion with acreage for livestock that they can write off the property expenses. Think about it. Those mansions with 20 heads of cattle aren't animal loves. Those animals are there for tax breaks. The people they hire to care for the animals are write offs too. The mansion "farm" is just one example of the things that wealthy can afford to do that the middle class can not.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:53 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,329,809 times
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Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Creating expensive tax shelters. For example, the middle class can't afford buy a mansion with acreage for livestock that they can write off the property expenses. Think about it. Those mansions with cattle aren't animal loves. Those animals are there for tax breaks. The people they hire to care for the animals are write offs too. The mansion farm is just one example of the things that wealth can afford to do that the middle class can not.
Just a simple schedule F. That is how I filed when I was making minimum wage.

Why do you think this is expensive???

Everything is a deduction.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:57 PM
 
12,997 posts, read 13,638,147 times
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Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Creating expensive tax shelters. For example, the middle class can't afford buy a mansion with acreage for livestock that they can write off the property expenses. Think about it. Those mansions with cattle aren't animal loves. Those animals are there for tax breaks. The people they hire to care for the animals are write offs too. The mansion farm is just one example of the things that wealth can afford to do that the middle class can not.
Word. Must be nice. Good work if you can get it. Hey, you think maybe the middle classes can band together and use our numbers to rebalance the tax code so that we pay less and wealthy people pay more? No? Too many middle class folks would rather be teabaggers and go to silly rallies and wear silly hats and yell they're mad as hell and they aren't going to take it anymore rather than analyze the problem and come up with a real solution? Figures.

I suppose rich people are rich for a reason. They understand their interests and know how to protect them. Sure would be nice to have more middle class folks who understood theirs. I guess we'll just have to settle for stupid utopionistic platitudes about the evil g'vmint and the need for a revolution. I swear these teabaggers haven't learned a thing since they were going to silly rallies and wearing silly hats, marching in the 60s as kids. Meanwhile, the rich enjoy the comfort of all of the tax shelters they have built for themselves. I have to say. I guess they've earned them.

(Sure would be nice to build a few middle class tax shelters though.)
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:11 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,596,242 times
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Originally Posted by starsfalling View Post
If everyone paid their fair share, then the middle class would not have such a burden. Also, many people who are self-employed hide their income; they just don't declare it, and they ask for cash payments. How is that fair? If other people pay taxes, everyone should pay their part. I am tired of paying for free loaders and income tax evaders.


The benefits of being self employed and not tied into a government robinhood system of employment.
I can make it look like I make a fortune, or I can make it look like I spent more than I made.

If everyone was self employed, the government would not have a clue what you have as income to live on.
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:16 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,329,809 times
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Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
The benefits of being self employed and not tied into a government robinhood system of employment.
I can make it look like I make a fortune, or I can make it look like I spent more than I made.

If everyone was self employed, the government would not have a clue what you have as income to live on.
Yes and no.

All business income by law as to be deposited in a business account.

We receive and give 1099's.

Yes, I can control some information but, not all of it.

I went though two audits, it was fine. Still nothing to be taken lightly.
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:18 PM
 
155 posts, read 222,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
The benefits of being self employed and not tied into a government robinhood system of employment.
I can make it look like I make a fortune, or I can make it look like I spent more than I made.

If everyone was self employed, the government would not have a clue what you have as income to live on.
If no one paid taxes, how would we have roads, school, police, etc. etc. etc. I don't think it is fair that you cheat by hiding what you make, while others pay your share.
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:22 PM
 
12,997 posts, read 13,638,147 times
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Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
If everyone was self employed, the government would not have a clue what you have as income to live on.
If everyone were self employed every business would make dismal profits because there wouldn't be any employees. Kind of hard to make good money in most businesses without at least a few employees, right? I'm glad you're enjoying your tax shelters as a business owner, but I think a better method for most of us who understand our interests is to quit hating the guv'mint and start figuring out ways to get people like you to pay more taxes so that people like us can pay less. Don't worry though. This will never happen ... not in our lifetimes at least. The American public is woefully uneducated about its true interests. Where's my hat? I have a teabag rally to attend.
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