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I think the "fleecing" was the electrical rates? If that was your problem, it is gone since Vero Beach sold it electrical system to FPL. IRC just passed a bond referendum by a large margin to purchase undeveloped land to contain growth.
Brightline (not Briteline) is going to be a problem and it is a problem for every town/city from Cocoa to Miami. A high speed train this like has never been tried in the US; much less in a densely populated area. I hope Brightline will be forced to build a new line parallel to I-95. Regarding the airport, the last airline failed and a new one started on Thursday. The new airline is similar to Allegiant in that it is not a regularly scheduled airline. I was near the airport when it landed on Thursday and didn't hear it. The airport is mostly private jets like most smaller affluent Florida cities.
The home prices on 32963 have increased in five years. Per Realtor.com the medium listing price for a home on the island is $1.3 million. I did look at an investment home for $999,000 that was 1100 sq ft and needed to be torn down. One ocean front home sold for $18 million in 2022 and another one is currently on the market for $29.5 million The prices on the mainland have greatly increased and there is a shortage of affordable houses and apartments for middle income people.
FWIW; I moved to Vero over two years ago and love it. The medical service is much better than the North Carolina coastal town I left to move to VB. JMO.
Only in your wildest dreams would Brightline or any railroad for that matter be forced to create a new line when there's already a certified line in existence. From a public safety standpoint, it would make sense if a new line was grade separated (elevated) but that would cost billions and there is absolutely no inceptive to do so from an operational standpoint.
Only in your wildest dreams would Brightline or any railroad for that matter be forced to create a new line when there's already a certified line in existence. From a public safety standpoint, it would make sense if a new line was grade separated (elevated) but that would cost billions and there is absolutely no inceptive to do so from an operational standpoint.
The following responses to your questions are "best guesses" and in no way fully represent an official reason. Only speculative responses.
1) CSX was mentioned briefly in earlier attempts at high speed rail. However, CSX would not be open to increasing non CSX trains and giving them priority on their tracks without an alternate route. Look at the details for what it took to get Sunrail off the ground in Orlando. The state essentially bought the rail corridor, but CSX still has access to use and is shielded (indemnified) from any litigation in the event an accident occurs between CSX/Sunrail. That sale funded the upgrading of CSX's other route into the state's interior bypassing Orlando which now handles the bulk of CSX traffic out of JAX.
2) I don't know when FEC entered the discussion but I would like to believe it was after Florida rejected federal funds to kickstart a shovel ready project. Remember, although the Tampa to Orlando leg was shovel ready at the time, then entire leg between central/south Florida was supposed to be grade separated using brand new I-4 ROW into Orlando, then choosing between the turnpike or 528 which would've removed the need to negotiate with any freight rail carrier during high speed transit or come into contact with pedestrians and truly be high speed rail.
Only in your wildest dreams would Brightline or any railroad for that matter be forced to create a new line when there's already a certified line in existence. From a public safety standpoint, it would make sense if a new line was grade separated (elevated) but that would cost billions and there is absolutely no inceptive to do so from an operational standpoint.
There is a need to enclosed the line when the trains start passing through cities and town at the projected speed of 110 mph. It looks like that Brightline has done this in the rural area from Orlando to Cocoa, but not in the new areas of population. Running trains at the projected speed of 110 mph through the east coast cities and towns is a disaster waiting to happen. At Fort Pierce, Brigthline will be passing a fuel depot with tank cars carrying flamable fliuds on the spur line within feet of the tracks. US 1 is on the other side of the tracks. Trains will be passing next to schools and parks in other cities. There have been 60 deaths attributed to the current Brightline operation. The majority of deaths are due to people being careless, but that is human nature. The AP produced a story based on FRA data that Brightline had the worst per-mile death rate of the nation's 821 railroads. When they add the new lines, I am afraid the death toll will increase.
I am not aware of any trains running 110 mph in the US without restriction to access of the rails. Maybe you could enlighten if there is such an operation? I think Brightline is a good idea, it is just poor engineering and planning.
There is a need to enclosed the line when the trains start passing through cities and town at the projected speed of 110 mph. It looks like that Brightline has done this in the rural area from Orlando to Cocoa, but not in the new areas of population. Running trains at the projected speed of 110 mph through the east coast cities and towns is a disaster waiting to happen. At Fort Pierce, Brigthline will be passing a fuel depot with tank cars carrying flamable fliuds on the spur line within feet of the tracks. US 1 is on the other side of the tracks. Trains will be passing next to schools and parks in other cities. There have been 60 deaths attributed to the current Brightline operation. The majority of deaths are due to people being careless, but that is human nature. The AP produced a story based on FRA data that Brightline had the worst per-mile death rate of the nation's 821 railroads. When they add the new lines, I am afraid the death toll will increase.
I am not aware of any trains running 110 mph in the US without restriction to access of the rails. Maybe you could enlighten if there is such an operation? I think Brightline is a good idea, it is just poor engineering and planning.
Although I could be wrong, I don't see Brightline being certified to operate higher than 79 in the more densely populated areas for a few reasons, some of which you've already mentioned:
Railroad Crossings
Existing rail easements (ie curves) that don't accommodate speeds up to 110mph.
Yes, Brightline can do this between Cocoa and OIA because new rail was laid AND grade separated (ie no railroad crossings after Michigan Ave before the route parallels 528). However, for grade separation south to Miami (series of over/underpasses) given the existing infrastructure, It would LITERALLY cost billions. Can it be done? YES. Will it be done? NO!
Regarding existing 100+ mph operations in a America that don't restrict access to rails, particularly where roads meet the rail, I'm not aware of any that allow this, specifically in the N.E. corridor. Only Brightline has that dubious honor which I why I believe in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties, speed will be restricted to 79 mph.
I believe in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties, speed will be restricted to 79 mph.
At the intersections near where I live on the Treasure Coast, they've added signs that warn of trains "approaching 80 mph" to get people accustomed to the much higher speed. Choosing that number could not have been accidental.
I doubt PSL becomes the next Ft Lauderdale. First of all, Ft Lauderdale is only 34.59 sq. ft. while PSL is 110 sq. ft. Ft Lauderdale is relatively much denser than PSL and has more walkable areas like Ft Lauderdale Beach and Downtown and there's really no area in PSL that's similar to Ft Lauderdale, plus PSL is very suburban in comparison to Ft Lauderdale. If anything, PSL is bigger than Ft Lauderdale, but I can foresee Ft Lauderdale growing in social and political clout just because it's been the more established city in South FL plus it's only about 30 min away from Miami while PSL is farther away from Miami.
I doubt PSL becomes the next Ft Lauderdale. First of all, Ft Lauderdale is only 34.59 sq. ft. while PSL is 110 sq. ft. Ft Lauderdale is relatively much denser than PSL and has more walkable areas like Ft Lauderdale Beach and Downtown and there's really no area in PSL that's similar to Ft Lauderdale, plus PSL is very suburban in comparison to Ft Lauderdale. If anything, PSL is bigger than Ft Lauderdale, but I can foresee Ft Lauderdale growing in social and political clout just because it's been the more established city in South FL plus it's only about 30 min away from Miami while PSL is farther away from Miami.
I know you meant square miles instead of square feet, lol. Seriously, residents in my hometown of Lakeland spout the same rhetoric; we don't wanna become the next Tampa/Orlando. NEWSFLASH!! Both Lakeland and PSL WILL NEVER be those metropolises.
I know what you meant, but I got a chuckle out of...
Quote:
Ft Lauderdale is only 34.59 sq. ft. while PSL is 110 sq. ft. Ft
They're much smaller than they seem. :-)
But you are correct that the two cities are very different. PSL lacks a downtown core. It's like one large subdivision, which of course is how it was "invented". Everything is spread out; most people live in the traditional 3/2 with a one-car garage. PSL also seems to be a destination for people who want to retire to Florida but aren't willing to pay Broward/Palm Beach County prices. Fort Lauderdale seems to attract a more international crowd who wants more excitement and is willing to pay higher prices for real estate. The two cities attract a different demo, so I see them becoming more distinct over time rather than becoming more similar.
We considered Vero, but at that time there were electricity wars ongoing between the City of Vero & the Islanders. It was learned that the City council were fleecing the more affluent Islanders with higher rates than the mainlanders...turned me off big time. I didn't want to pay for those lawsuits.
Then, I learned 32 Briteline trains/day were going to pass through the center of town, & create traffic armegeddon. Has that kicked in yet?
I was also afraid of the airport growing out of control.
Planes, trains, & automobiles...oh my.
Otherwise, we loved it. Building height limits, & 32963 were alluring to us. Nice beaches, low density zoning, a few good restaurants on the island, the yacht club, & the bike/nature/jungle trail, are all very nice features.
We felt back then (5 years ago) they should be working on another bridge.
There was no fleecing. Totally untrue and really inappropriate to accuse city Council of that . I think you were confused about the geography of Indian river county and how the electric works in this county. There were two separate electric companies for decades five years ago. One company which was established over a century ago is the one that you are accusing of fleecing. The private Vero Utility Co. And FPL Which showed up much later in the century..
There were contracts in place some with bonds up to 30 years. So you’re taking a very complex legal situation and calling it fleecing when the reality is the growth of the county caused unforeseen problems. The city was forced to take over the electric company when they could not meet demand.
The Islanders, as you’d like to call them, are either residents of the city of Vero Beach or not. The war that you are casually referring to was not the Islanders who are residents of Vero Beach but outlying county residents in a totally different town Indian River Shores…who CHOSE to receive their electricity from this company, which was small. Via LEGAL AGREEMENT in 1986. They wanted to get out of the contract and switch to FPL and leave the city of Vero Beach, holding the bag. They ended up losing their multiyear legal battle and then eventually FPL bought them out and took over the entire county. 2019 . The “war” was 3000 people out of 150,000.
Vero beach is a very small area of 13 sq mi. including part of the barrier island. Everything else casually referred to as Vero beach are not Vero Beach they are part of Indian River County territory and various towns, cities, CDPs, And other unincorporated communities.
TL;DR. All you had to do was buy a property served by FPL if Vero Beach electric prices were too high for your liking.
Not sure why you thought the airport was going to become huge since it’s been here since 1929 and fear of expansion has never even been mentioned for any reason.
Also, as to other replies, Nobody will be forcing anybody to build a new rail line out West at I 95. MIAMI GLOBAL FREIGHT is the anchor, and the actual reason this whole Brightline thing started.
They’re not going to demolish huge populations in Miami and north just to “move” a rail line 8 miles west what lol?
The Florida East Coast Railway was established in 1836, rebuilt after the Civil War, and bought by Henry Flagler in 1885 ….running north to south on the east coast of Florida parallel with route one and this is not going to be changing in our lifetimes. Anyone living near route one knows about this rail line
No, there have been absolutely no problems with Brightline at all and now all the counties that fought it are asking for a station! And out of several million passengers, the only problems have been idiots who try to beat the train or suicides.
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