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What saddens me the most about Portland's 'social services consumers' is not that they are here (which we can change by voting,) but the way they treat the city. Most of them show no respect toward the place that is keeping them alive. They just throw trash all over, defecate/urinate/vomit where ever, and harass hard working citizens that pay for their 'freebies' through taxes.
I keep saying the same thing dubthang and yet I keep getting told I'm out of line by suggesting that Portland has a real problem with the homeless, mentally ill, chronic alcoholics, drug abusers, and street dwellers in general. I'm not dreaming when I see them hanging out on Congress Street between High and Forest ave all over the place. Preble Street, Federal Street, Cumberland Ave, Washington Ave by Congress street India Street, and around Deering Oaks and many of the streets in between such as Grant, Sherman and the other side of Congress Street, Pine Street and up by the hospital. They're all over the place and many of them are just plain nasty.
Also has anyone noticed the condition of the once pretty duck pond at Deering Oaks lately? It's filled with duck weed and dozens of dead seagulls, ducks, pidgeons, and even dead rats! I have never seen that place so dirty in my life! To think kids used to play in the water there on hot days. Now it is so disgusting it should be drained as a health hazard. Come on Portland what the he77 is wrong with you people???
Okay, well Portland is a nice place to visit, but I'm kind of glad I don't live there any more. Wicked expensive, bums, gangs, yuppies, TRAFFIC (believe it or not), and waaay too liberal for me.
Lewiston/Auburn is next biggest (75,000 or so), but it is BAD. There is a culture of drugs/crime/lowlifes that has become engrained there. I don't know if they will ever get rid of it.
Bangor/Brewer is around 40,000 and is not as bad. Downtown Bangor is pretty sketchy and I think Bangor is going to hell with all the sprawl that is getting out of hand. But it's not as bad as Lewiston.
Biddeford/Saco is around 40,000 or so. Not too bad, but it is fairly expensive. It's on the coast. Biddeford is a drunk's paradise. Rough downtown with lots of bars and crap. I'm not sure if Saco is as bad as Biddeford, probably not since in the old days, Biddeford is where the mill workers lived, and Saco was for the managers. So that set the tone.
Augusta is the capital, 20,000 or so. It just seems to have a lot of problems. Again, nice place to visit but there's just something about Augusta that makes most people go "ugh".
Waterville is around 20,000. I don't know that much about it but it seems okay.
Hope that helps!
Can you tell me how Brunswick/Bath is? I'm not looking for a city but would like to know how they are for the above other towns/cities. Thanks!!
I said I was afraid of Portland becoming the San Francisco of the East Coast not that it already is. Realistically it will not, due to the cold winters where the homeless population in SF can live outside virtually year round. As the OP suggested in her opening post she was not prepared for the volume and vitriol from the street people of Portland. While the SF problem is widely known, the Portland bum problem is the city's dirty little secret.
As for my trip to San Francisco I'm not a city dweller by any stretch of the imagination. I do have good friends in SF and that is why we chose to spend time there. I'd take the Napa Valley again anytime over San Francisco and as far as a return trip goes it won't include four days in San Francisco the next time. It's pretty bad when your Russian tour bus driver rails on for two hours about where you can go and what you can do in SF to AVOID the bums. You're correct, the concentration of street people is Union Square but there were plenty of them wherever we walked and we walked about 15 miles in 4 days.. There was virtually no landmark we visited where we did not run into panhandlers. Lombard street, Coit Tower, Pier 39, AT&T Park, Levi's Park,The Embarcadaro, China Town, The Financial District....everywhere!! There is an intrinsic beauty to the city which in our opinion was overshadowed by the endless barrage of panhandlers and just plain dirty street bums we encountered. It's hard to relax and enjoy a place when you're always on guard for the next approaching bum or panhandler. I wish I could say I was exaggerating but it is what we experienced. I suppose people get hardened to the reality of the bums and just ignore them after a while but it doesn't happen in four days when you're not accustomed to dealing with them. It's too bad because I'm sure it was once a pretty place without the street people and the unsafe feeling.....like Portland was.....
that way i hate the bay area because of the b.s. with the panhandlers ..you can not get out of the car in some areas up there without haveing someone come over and ask you for money i was on a dae and we had gone to dinner and was heading over to watch a ball game when a guy got mad when i told him times are tough bud and you need to do a little more job hunting than standing around the corner asking for money.. ..to me i can not understand why the police dept does not make it hard for them to panhandle but that ca for you ..
Can you tell me how Brunswick/Bath is? I'm not looking for a city but would like to know how they are for the above other towns/cities. Thanks!!
Okay, well Bath is going to be expensive, since it's become "hip" to buy there.
Brunsick, I could recommend, as the Navy base just shut down, taking thousands of people with them. That means houses are (relatively) cheap and will get even cheaper.
The only thing about either town that I would really NOT like is the tourists/traffic from May to October. On weekends......well, I think I would freak out. lol
Oh yeah, Bath is a shipyard town, so those who know better than me can tell you what if any effects that brings.......(noise, pollution, etc.)
Okay, well Bath is going to be expensive, since it's become "hip" to buy there.
Brunsick, I could recommend, as the Navy base just shut down, taking thousands of people with them. That means houses are (relatively) cheap and will get even cheaper.
The only thing about either town that I would really NOT like is the tourists/traffic from May to October. On weekends......well, I think I would freak out. lol
Oh yeah, Bath is a shipyard town, so those who know better than me can tell you what if any effects that brings.......(noise, pollution, etc.)
Thanks for the info and your observations. I have always rented, grew up in NYC and rented all my life. So, I would be renting in Maine as well.
I like hearing what people who live in the place or surrounding area see and feel about a place.
I'm getting the impression that many people here are imagining Portland to be a cosmopolitan "City" plunked down in the middle of the quaint Maine atmosphere of the movies. Keep dreaming! First of all, compared to places like NYC, Boston or San Franscisco, Portland is nothing more than a large commercial center in one of the suburbs surrounding one of those aforementioned cities.
If you do not already live in Maine, then there is only one reason you should move to Portland - because you have to - either because you got a job there or you are going to school there. Seriously, if you really want to move to Maine and not live in the woods, there are tons of quaint towns all over the place with all the amenities you need.
Maine is just like the rest of the country - suburban sprawl everywhere. If you truly desire a "city in the middle of the woods" then Burlington, Vermont is your best bet. ALL "cities" in this country, especially in the Northeast, are Liberal.
Truth be told, if you are determined to live in a "city" in the Northeast, and you can afford it, then stick with NYC or Boston - they are REAL, bustling cities and you do not need a car. The only problem is they are uber-expensive. Do not let the illusions of "Maine" blind you if you really desire the "city" life. Move to Boston and vacation in "real" Maine on the weekends. That is the only way to get this illusion you desire.
My cousin lives in Portland, but she was born and raised in Ellsworth, Maine. She only moved to Portland because Boston and NYC were too expensive, but she's a native Mainer who went to school in Des Moines, Iowa and got sick of it. It's fine for 20-30-something's without kids, but not a place to settle down in.
Ellsworth is a suburb of Bangor, right near Mount Desert Island (my aunt was a teacher there). Not long ago their road was a dirt road. It is now paved but they still do not have cable because the cable / phone companies refuse to run cable to the rural areas, but they just got DSL last month because the phone company finally offered it. That being said, over the past decade or so the area went from having 2-3 local stores in total to every single big-box store you can imagine within a 20 minute drive. In otherwords, aside from the real locals who live in the woods, you can actually have all the amenities you want if you move into one of the new subdivisions in downtown Ellsworth. Back in the day you HAD to drive to Bangor to do your shopping.
This may actually be the best bet to fill this fantasy of having it all in Maine - Ellsworth! Within 20-30 minutes you are on the ocean - Mount Desert Island, Acadia National Park. Or you can visit one of several large lakes within 5 minutes drive (or walk, depending where you live). You can buy a new condo, or "rough it" in the woods like the locals. And there is a Home Depot, a Lowes, a Walmart and whatever else ya'll want at your beck-and-call.
Personally, I really wish all you New Yorkers and Bostonites would just stay where you are! Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine have been absolutely destroyed by all the Liberal elites moving up there. Taxes and developement have skyrocketed and regulations - you MUST have sewers because NYC has sewers (even though the sewer systems cost millions and the sewer sludge is dumped into the previously clean waters, whereas sepctic systems were just fine), and BAN guns! Guns are BAD! NYC banned guns, so all you evil hunters must stop hunting because it is BAD! And teachers unions - they imported the evil teachers unions and now the number of teachers in Maine and Vermont is growing as the number of studends is falling. And what does that mean? Higher property taxes! Taxes have at least quadrupled over the past decade.
My dream is to live in the middle of nowhere, Maine. No box stores! But, because of all the liberal Elites from NYC and Boston, I will probably not be able to afford to. That is why I say if you can afford it, just move to NYC or Boston, or even one of the suburbs thereof. Trust me, you will not want for a damned thing! It's all here! You can take it all!
As for crime / welfare etc. Yes. It is a problem in Portland. Why? I'll tell you the straight-up, politically-incorrect reason why: Deliberate blindness!
The Somalis there were refugess who were settled by the Federal Government somewhere down South. Somehow they heard that Maine was a great place and they all, THOUSANDS of them, up and moved to Maine (Lewiston, I believe), and enrolled in welfare and literally bankrupted the city. The Mayor begged them to stop coming because the city could not afford it, and all the Liberal white people flipped out. Anyhow, you can see how this ended up. The truth is, Maine was a very "white" state, and they had these liberal, PC illusions that all the rest of the country was just a bunch of ignorant racist white people who "hate" non-whites. That is very easy to claim when you have never experienced real multi-culturalism and the real crime and high taxes levied on all the "racist white" WORKING TAXPAYERS to deal with REALITY. Get real! NYC was a DISASTER before Giuliani became Mayor. You couldn't walk down the block without a bum begging for money; the streets were dirty and you couldn't walk through the Lower East Side at night, or even dream of going north of Central Park because you could literally be killed. The white working taxpayers fled NYC in droves and the situation only became worse. Then Giuliani truly did clean it all up, and cut taxes to attract the working taxpayers back. It worked. Too well, actually, because now NYC downright sucks because all the artists and musicians were priced right out. As for the burbs, same problem on a smaller, spread-out scale. On Long Island, where I live, it had gone way downhill, but the locals finally took the towns back and cleaned them up. Unfortunately, in order to make it work the taxes skyrocketed because the schools were going downhill because of all the Illegals; so my school district now spends $25,000 - Yes, $25 THOUSAND per student, most of it going to ESL and crap, and still only 60% of students can read at grade level. When I was in school it was bad, but the taxes weren't so high, so most kids went to Catholic school, but now no one can afford both the taxes and tuition. Anyhow, property taxes here average $10,000-20,000 depending where you live. Even in the really ghetto towns property taxes are $7,000-8,000 a year.
So yeah, get ready Maine, if you do not wake up and crack down on the illogical liberal policies, your taxes are gonna skyrocket and all real Mainers will be forced out. North Carolina will be overpopulated by then!
As someone who moved to Portland (for school) from Massachusetts, my view is the polar opposite of yours.
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Originally Posted by natschultz
I'm getting the impression that many people here are imagining Portland to be a cosmopolitan "City" plunked down in the middle of the quaint Maine atmosphere of the movies. Keep dreaming! First of all, compared to places like NYC, Boston or San Franscisco, Portland is nothing more than a large commercial center in one of the suburbs surrounding one of those aforementioned cities.
Compared to Boston or San Francisco, Portland feels like a tiny little seaside village; not a suburban commercial center.
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If you do not already live in Maine, then there is only one reason you should move to Portland - because you have to - either because you got a job there or you are going to school there. Seriously, if you really want to move to Maine and not live in the woods, there are tons of quaint towns all over the place with all the amenities you need.
If you don't already live in Maine, there are other reasons for moving to Portland beyond, "You have to." It may come as a shock, but many people find Portland's quaint seaside charm to be enticing. One of the biggest differences I noticed between transplants in Portland and life-long Mainers was the strikingly different views of the same city. To a transplant who grew tired of Boston or New York, Portland was a great alternative because it offered some of the urban amenities (certainly not even close to all, but generally enough) they were leaving behind without all of the problems they left behind (perception of high crime, congestion and sprawl). To a transplant, Portland IS semi-isolated without being completely disconnected (like you would be in the woods of Northern Maine). To a Mainer, Portland is THE city. It's the place where the kids from all the small towns in the sate converge to get their "city" on and it's the center of the state's commercial activity. These views couldn't be any more different from each other. I found that if I gave my perspective on Portland ("small, quiet, quaint") to a local in, say, Farmington, they'd look at me like I had three heads. It's that different.
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Maine is just like the rest of the country - suburban sprawl everywhere. If you truly desire a "city in the middle of the woods" then Burlington, Vermont is your best bet. ALL "cities" in this country, especially in the Northeast, are Liberal.
Where's the suburban sprawl everywhere? Maine has one of the lowest population densities in the country. It's not Wyoming, Montana or Alaska, but in terms of population density, it's not far off (Montana and Alaska have larger cities than Portland).
I used to always laugh when people in Maine refer to Southern Maine as "the urban" part of the state. Lets put this in perspective. York and Cumberland County have two times as much land as the state of Rhode Island. The combined population of those two counties is less than HALF of Rhode Island's. Once you leave central Portland it gets rural quickly. It may not be as rural as the unincorporated townships up North, but there are only a small handful of places in the country like that. Southern Maine is largely rural and there are only a small pocket of suburban and urban sections even there. I always thought calling Southern Maine "urban" was just as ignorant as people here in Boston calling the semi-woodsy suburb two towns over, "the sticks" (yes, they do it).
Oh, Portland's not nearly as liberal (in terms of attitude) as many Mainers like to think. Sure, it has a visible liberal pocket. However, it has nothing on places like Burlington, Newport, Provincetown, Providence, Northampton, etc. Maybe compared to Houlton it's pretty liberal; but in the bigger scheme of things it's not overly so.
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Truth be told, if you are determined to live in a "city" in the Northeast, and you can afford it, then stick with NYC or Boston - they are REAL, bustling cities and you do not need a car. The only problem is they are uber-expensive. Do not let the illusions of "Maine" blind you if you really desire the "city" life. Move to Boston and vacation in "real" Maine on the weekends. That is the only way to get this illusion you desire.
Again, this is where you seem to not understand what people want. A lot of people who move to Portland move from these cities. I left Portland. I was miserable there. It was too small and too boring for me. I am MUCH happier in the big city. The thing is, not everyone feels the same way. Portland offers a few of the amenities you can find in Boston or NYC (again, not even close to all; but plenty for many people) without the problems. Portland is perfect for the people who don't want a big city (or even a city... you can live IN Portland without being in an urban neighborhood quite easily) but aren't cut out for suburbia or the deep woods.
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It's fine for 20-30-something's without kids, but not a place to settle down in.
I disagree big time. I thought Portland was a nightmare for 20 somethings. I felt that most people my age (mid 20s) were engaged, married or married with kids. There is next to no nightlife (even for such a small city) and the venues that ARE in the city shut down at 1am. You can explore all the "city" type attractions that Portland has for young singles in a matter of about 1 evening. Unless you're big into outdoorsy activities, Portland is not the place to be for the 20 somethings. The few young singles that are in Portland are NOT the "city" crowd; most having come from somewhere else in Maine. My girlfriend, a life long Mainer, moved to San Francisco because she found Portland overwhelmingly boring.
On the contrary, the Portland area's low crime, good schools, and natural beauty make it an ideal place for a young family. That's why there are so many of them there and more looking to live there. I think that Portland is a much better place for families than it is for singles. If I didn't have a girlfriend, I think I would have gone out of my mind.
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Ellsworth is a suburb of Bangor, right near Mount Desert Island (my aunt was a teacher there). Not long ago their road was a dirt road. It is now paved but they still do not have cable because the cable / phone companies refuse to run cable to the rural areas, but they just got DSL last month because the phone company finally offered it. That being said, over the past decade or so the area went from having 2-3 local stores in total to every single big-box store you can imagine within a 20 minute drive. In otherwords, aside from the real locals who live in the woods, you can actually have all the amenities you want if you move into one of the new subdivisions in downtown Ellsworth. Back in the day you HAD to drive to Bangor to do your shopping.
Almost any rural community that has any sort of "growth" does it in this fashion. It's not because Ellsworth is being "absorbed" by Bangor, 30 miles away. It's because Ellsworth is the biggest small town in an area of other small towns. In rural areas, this happens. Farmington is another example. The largest small town becomes a hub for the other small towns in the area. It just so happens that the way builders are building new homes is in subdivisions. This doesn't make a town a suburb, it makes a town like any other small town anywhere that has seen new construction.
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This may actually be the best bet to fill this fantasy of having it all in Maine - Ellsworth! Within 20-30 minutes you are on the ocean - Mount Desert Island, Acadia National Park. Or you can visit one of several large lakes within 5 minutes drive (or walk, depending where you live). You can buy a new condo, or "rough it" in the woods like the locals. And there is a Home Depot, a Lowes, a Walmart and whatever else ya'll want at your beck-and-call.
It's funny, Mainers love to go on and on about the "fantasy" people have about Maine as if it's something unique to Maine. Every section of the country has its unique "charm" and with that is often highlighted an overplayed in tourism guides and media outlets. Do you have any idea how many people want to go to Wyoming or Montana and simply spend the rest of their days "working" their ranch? How many kids want to move to Boston and live their lives like they're straight out of "The Town" or "The Departed"? How many want to move to LA and become famous? etc, etc, etc. 99% of these people (anywhere, not just Maine) will never follow through with their fantasy because it's, well, it's a fantasy (it's difficult to swing anywhere). Some legitimately DO love Maine and ofter for reasons different than those you perceive. They may be able to make it work, and why shouldn't they?
On another note, I sympathize with Mainers having to put up with the transplants who roll into town and believe they can change everything. These people are pains. They also give people "from away" a bad name. The thing is, they generally find out they can't change things, get frustrated with Maine and then leave (often times blaming Maine for their problems, not their own rigidity and unwillingness to adapt). These folks are generally a temporary nuisance... not a long term problem.
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Personally, I really wish all you New Yorkers and Bostonites would just stay where you are! Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine have been absolutely destroyed by all the Liberal elites moving up there. Taxes and developement have skyrocketed and regulations - you MUST have sewers because NYC has sewers (even though the sewer systems cost millions and the sewer sludge is dumped into the previously clean waters, whereas sepctic systems were just fine), and BAN guns! Guns are BAD! NYC banned guns, so all you evil hunters must stop hunting because it is BAD! And teachers unions - they imported the evil teachers unions and now the number of teachers in Maine and Vermont is growing as the number of studends is falling. And what does that mean? Higher property taxes! Taxes have at least quadrupled over the past decade.
So you officially went off the deep end here. 1) Where's the "destruction?" 2) I'd like to point out that although you have cited all sorts of development, Maine is losing people. Yes, Maine's population is declining. So instead of trying to keep all of those "liberal elites" (love the term, by the way) out of your state, maybe you should focus on trying to keep the "real Mainers" IN your state? You know how you keep people from leaving? Oh... I know... Jobs! I sympathize with you on the regulation front because many of those regulations keep jobs from being available (i.e. regulations in the lumber/paper industries). However, I don't think you can sit here and blame everyone from out of state for those problems. Anyway, until Maine finds a way to employ its own, they'll continue leaving for greener pastures (see what I did there... "greener" because of the money? anyway...) and retirees from Boston and New York will continue to arrive.
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My dream is to live in the middle of nowhere, Maine. No box stores! But, because of all the liberal Elites from NYC and Boston, I will probably not be able to afford to.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the most affordable places in Maine the places in the middle of nowhere? And doesn't that "nowhere land" literally constitute the majority of the land in Maine. I believe Maine is some 90% forested and 52% unincorporated townships. I don't think you're going to run out of places to live cheaply in the middle of nowhere. Not in your lifetime, anyway.
Most of those "liberal elites" can't cut it in the middle of nowhere. Most of them settle in already well established tourist hot spots like York, Kennebunk, Bar Harbor, Portland, Bethel, etc. I don't know that many of them are finding their way into Maine's backwoods. Most of them wouldn't last a second up there. I know I wouldn't.
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As for crime / welfare etc. Yes. It is a problem in Portland. Why? I'll tell you the straight-up, politically-incorrect reason why: Deliberate blindness!
Since we're not concerned with politically correctness, I'll bite. If you really thing that crime is bad in Portland, you need to get out of the state a little bit. Sure Portland has some crime issues (every city does), but they're not nearly as bad as most other cities (even similarly sized cities). Not even close. Portland is still an incredibly safe place when compared to other cities. Anyone who has lived in a city and is currently looking to live in a city understands that some degree of crime comes with living in a city. Crime is nothing to worry about in Portland for anyone who has lived in a city before.
Welfare is an issue everywhere. Yes, I know... the Somalis (blah, blah, blah). they happen to be Maine's immigrant group. Do you know that in just about every city and every state there is at least one immigrant group that the residents of that state would make the same argument you're making about? In MA you have the Guatemalans. In RI you have the Puerto Ricans, In CA, AZ, or TX you have the Mexicans. In FL you have the Cubans. In MI, you have various Middle Eastern groups. You said that Maine USED to be a white state. How would you feel to learn that Maine is not only still white, it's the WHITEST state in the nation (96% non-hispanic white).
I'm not saying that welfare isn't a problem. It is. It's a BIG problem. Everywhere. You may hate it in Maine, but you'll run into the same issues in any of the other states in this country. In some it will be far worse than anything you have in Maine.
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So yeah, get ready Maine, if you do not wake up and crack down on the illogical liberal policies, your taxes are gonna skyrocket and all real Mainers will be forced out. North Carolina will be overpopulated by then!
Earlier in your rant you mentioned people who had a "fantasy" about Maine. Personally, I think it's people like you who are living in the "fantasy" world. Every issue you have brought up (many of them, like the suburbia "problem", are highly exaggerated to begin with) is a problem everywhere. It's a fantasy to believe that Maine should be immune from the problems that every state in the nation faces. If you're "forced out" I don't know where you'll go, because I think your issues will be tough to leave behind (interpret that as you may).
There's a TON of pride amongst locals about their city. To be fair, Portland has a lot going for it offers more than most cities its size in the country. I watched the increase in panhandling first hand. It wasn't SO bad when I first moved there, but it got worse and worse. I watched fist fights at Congress and St. John between homeless people over who got to stand at that spot. ...there are a TON of homeless people in Portland. I moved into Boston and I deal with fewer panhandlers on a daily basis than I did in Portland. Anyway, I wouldn't say Portland's a bad city. It's a great place to visit, but I don't miss living there.
I moved cold turkey from Sacramento [which Portland could never be as bad], and spent a considerable amount of time in 2008, as a motivated homeless person, in Hillsboro then Portland. I spent my days while desperately looking for work, between The Salvation army, City Concern, The Multnomah County Libray and the MAX Train. I ate at Blanchet House every day.
Being black, I was told to avoid Oregon, for its alleged history of being anti-Afro American. But maybe it was my face that steered me around anything remotely racist, except for wondering if covert racism kept me from a job I applied for in Albany back in '07. Otherwise, even though I though I looked very homeless, I never met up with anything but friendly kind people. One lady even walked up to me when I happened to bery hungry, with Mc Donlads food and said, "Have a lovely day, my friend." and strode off. Even the police would say hello to me! All this was a big deal, coming from typically unfriendly L.A. and Sacramento.
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Maine / Portland for NON-Mainers
