Has light rail been a mistake? (Portland, Salem: neighborhood, bankruptcy, to live in)

[puerco]

Originally Posted by maxredline

Small wonder that many of us refer to it as the "crime train".

The suburbs were mostly populated by 'white flight'. People who don't want to experience the diversity of cultures & races that can be found in the cities. Now that MAX is coming to their suburbs from the city they're naturally going to get paranoid & say "those people" from the city are riding out to do them harm. Of course they're not going to support MAX.

[puerco]

Originally Posted by maxredline

Well, Phil, it's apparent that you're not one to let a few facts get in the way of your firmly-held belief. Your mind is made up, and there ain't anybody a-gonna change it. Whatever.

I posted a link to the crime map for 2007 which was published following the incident in which an older gentleman had his head bashed with a baseball bat as he exited the train. Obviously, you're too grandiose to be bothered with such minor details; it's easier to loftily dismiss as baseless.

You live in an urban city. Thanks for the heads-up, Dr. N.S. Sherlock.

You cannot isolate yourself from the people of Portland. I find it offensive and repulsive beyond my ability to compose a coherent paragraph that people, may be even including yourself (I don't really know youl, so I am just taking a guess,) that want to isolate themselves from your own community and create an economic / social / maybe even racial, island separate, stratified, and cut off from the rest of the community.

I can see that you find it difficult to compose a coherent statement - your brain is abuzz with conspiracy theories. I don't recall stating at any point a desire to isolate myself; that's just something you made up. That trains are horribly expensive, inflexible, and serve as criminal transport is indisputable; your dogmatic support notwithstanding. As I have noted, buses are far less expensive, more reliable, more flexible - and people actually have to pay to ride them. Obviously, I support transit. Equally obviously, I oppose rail as it is implemented.

The social costs, the economic cost (in taxes and jobs) consumed by an un-viable economic and social unstable city is devastating.

And so tell me, Doctor Sherlock: just how many jobs have been brought into Portland metro area as a direct result of light rail?

In the past year, the city of Portland has lost nearly 16,000 jobs.

Where is the headquarters for Columbia Sportswear now located? Oh, that's right - they moved out of downtown Portland, didn't they? They must have done that so they could locate along a light-rail line, right? What's that you say? You'll need to speak up, sonny; it's darn hard to hear you.

How about that Beaverton Round? Golly, it's only gone bankrupt twice, despite the infusion of tens of millions of taxpayer subsidies, and it still isn't completed.

How about that Cascade Station mixed-use development out by the airport? There's a real monument to the success of the crime train, isn't it? What's that? It sat undeveloped for a decade until the zoning was changed to allow big-box stores with 2,000 parking spaces? Oh, say it isn't so! I have no doubt that you rode the crime train out there to Ikea and dragged your brand new home entertainment center onto the train for the trip home. It's invigorating, isn't it?

Make no mistake about it, you have nothing to back up your b.s. All you have are your firm preconceptions. And like most weenies, you demand citations from others, airly dismiss them, and fail to substantiate your own view. When that doesn't work, you turn to posting dire "warnings", discuss the "attitudes" of others like you were some kind of gifted shrink, and then finally order us to "get over it or move".

Sorry, Sherlock - I was here first. If anybody needs to move, it would be intolerant newcomer jerks such as you. I'll help you pack.

What's your reason for such a nasty hostile rant?

[Urbanlover85]

I wonder the same, puerco. Why do you feel the need to be so condesending and mean-spirited maxredline? Sheesh.

[carolinajack]

Originally Posted by jjpop

This isn't an article. It's an opinion piece by a local right-wing radio talk show host who probably wants to drum up listenership by being inflammatory.

Instead of this, read balanced reporting by real journalists to assess the state of TriMet.

the problem is, where are you going to find balanced reporting? if its not Right Wingers then its Left Wingers. not many objective journalism any more where both sides are heard

[carolinajack]

Originally Posted by puerco

The suburbs were mostly populated by 'white flight'. People who don't want to experience the diversity of cultures & races that can be found in the cities. Now that MAX is coming to their suburbs from the city they're naturally going to get paranoid & say "those people" from the city are riding out to do them harm. Of course they're not going to support MAX.

diversity and cultures and races in the city? there is as much of that out near intel as in the city. there is a ghetto of blacks in north portland and the poor and hispanic have to move future and future from the city center so i dont know how progressive the city is on that issue. it wasnt very diverse when i lived in ne glisan. and people will stare at you as a black person even on the Hawthorne.

[maxredline]

@Puerco: oh, so it's okay for Phil to trot in and "question your veracity" - in other words, call you a liar.
You can't say anything back, is that the deal?

@urbamlover: do as I suggested Phil do - go back and read his posts. Then come back and talk to me about "mean spirits". Talk to me about being "condescending" after you read his earlier posts here.

@both of you: did you notice his expletive-filled post? Oh, but that's okay, because he has stated that he's a big liberal. They get a pass on that.

Note that I have done nothing more than oppose light rail in favor of bus lines - which by definition means that I'm not anti-transit, but fiscally responsible.

I did not strike out at your little hero - but when subjected to immediate condescension and accusations, I do have this unfortunate little tendency to defend myself. I and others have provided facts which have gone unanswered. Instead, your little hero degenerated immediately into name-calling and "mean-spirited" attacks.

He never addressed the facts presented regarding the Crime Train; instead, he launched a series of attacks which you apparently support.

Pot, meet Kettle.

[rosecitywanderer]

Originally Posted by puerco

The suburbs were mostly populated by 'white flight'. People who don't want to experience the diversity of cultures & races that can be found in the cities. Now that MAX is coming to their suburbs from the city they're naturally going to get paranoid & say "those people" from the city are riding out to do them harm. Of course they're not going to support MAX.

Oh...the great liberal stand-by: make it a racism issue where there is none. We have a family friend who is a bleeding heart liberal and many years ago he was debating where to send his kids to school. He wanted them to interact with other races and diversity so my dad suggested he send them to public school where they could get just that. Instead he sent them to a private, practically all-white school. Can you say hypocrisy?

Also, the facts show that activity from squatters and homeless people (as well as gangs) follows the light rail.

[maxredline]

Nice catch, RoseCityWanderer - I had considered addressing the fallacious "white flight" argument, but got side-tracked by puerco and urban's ridiculous accusations (had they been capable of reading, they might have noticed that the hostility and "mean-spirited" ranting did not come from me).

If these two actually had any experience with the greater Portland area, then they wouldn't be talking smack about bogus "white flight" and other stuff. Hispanics dominate the Hillsboro area on the west side, there's a mix of Hispanics and Asians in the Rockwood area on the east side, and as Carolina notes, a mostly black enclave in North Portland. And to see where the most crimes occur, all they had to do would have been to hit the link provided, which opens a map clearly indicating that much of the crime occurs along light rail lines.

It has nothing to do with "white flight" - but everything to do with gang activity.

[Deezus]

Crime has decreased in North Portland in neighborhoods near the Yellow Line since it opened in 2005. Is this drop in crime a result of the MAX? No, it's the result of gentrification and real estate appreciating in the area since it opened. But how many new residents actually chose to live in neighborhoods such as Overlook and Kenton because they liked the convenience of the MAX for commuting to downtown? I lived a couple blocks away from the Yellow Line and rode it practically every day for 4 years. Except for one time on a crowded train during Cinco De Mayo I can't remember many sketchier incidents except for the occasional loudmouth. Truth is that while North Interstate still has its sketchier moments, but it was much worse over 15 years ago than it is now...

Much of the areas the MAX goes through would naturally be higher crime areas. The MAX goes along main arterial routes for the most parts--higher usage commercial areas will higher rates of theft and assault because you've got more people in those areas on a day to day basis. Futhermore you're talking about lower income areas surrounding the train routes for the most part. Looking at wealthier areas--has there been an increase in crime in Goose Hollow since the MAX opened years ago? How about near the Sunset transit area?

Much of the crime problems associated with MAX could be easily remedied by just having more TriMet officers to check tickets on board...The single reason that MAX would be attractive to young petty criminals is that you can ride it for free most of the time and not get caught.

Crime has increased throughout the eastside of Portland..Why--because the poor have been forced to move to the more affordable areas with the rapid increase in real estate prices in inner-East Portland in the last decade. There are plenty of high crime areas in outer SE and NE Portland a long ways from any MAX station.

While I'm not the biggest proponent of much of the recent MAX expansion(WTF do I care about going to Clackamas?) I'm just not buying the argument that crime and gang violence is somehow automatically increased in a neighborhood as a result of construction of a MAX station. I've been riding the MAX regularly on the Yellow, Red, and Blue lines for over 8 years---and I’m not any more worried about riding it than I am taking the bus.

[maxredline]

Much of the crime problems associated with MAX could be easily remedied by just having more TriMet officers to check tickets on board...The single reason that MAX would be attractive to young petty criminals is that you can ride it for free most of the time and not get caught.

Absolutely correct, Deezus - one of several issues that I have with light rail - aside from its incredible expense and lack of flexibility - is that pay to ride is optional. Bus transit offers greater flexibility, less cost, and required pay to ride.

Check out the map link that was provided in order to see some slightly dated stats on crime/light rail.

I do wish they'd publish an updated map, especially as the Clackamas County Sheriff has noted a sharp uptick in crime since the Green line went active, even as crime in the rest of the county has decreased.

For what it's worth, I lived for several years on NE Tillamook, off Williams Ave. back in the '70's - when the area was considered a huge crime area. Never had any issues. But as a scruffy-looking white guy living in the midst of Bloods and Crips, I don't think anybody saw any need to bother with me.

On the oither hand, I may just have been lucky - unlike the septogenarian who got his head bashed in with a bat by a young teen gang initiate after exiting the train in Rockwood.