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I would guess that they'd have been elsewhere, drinking. To me, the salient point is that they followed the officers on the train, and attacked them after they disembarked at Clackamas Town Center. Oddly, this is the very site where the Clackamas County Sheriff says that crime rates have been spiking.
In other news, it looks as though Clark County's going to put LRT extension to a vote. They don't do that in Oregon, any more.
It is like I said before: Police the place more heavily, with ON DUTY policemen. I don't want this to be the reason for any mass transit to be scaled back or rejected. I know this feeling because I live in a county where so many people have said NO to MARTA for so long it is making me angry. I have already mentioned the historically reason why Cobb County said no when MARTA was first being built.There is NO rail system out here and the crime rate has been spiking in some places, even where I live and it is supposedly a "safe" suburb. The criminals who attacked me had their own vehicle.
Personally, if there are people in Clark County who don't have cars, I hope for their sake that Clark County gets the light rail. I wish Cobb County would say yes to MARTA. I am very pro-mass transit. I am watching major cities all over the world use mass transit of all kinds and I don't here alot of people in those places complaining or trying to get rid of it. NYC used to have a massive crime problem. NO one got rid of the trains. They started arresting turnstyle jumpers, they started removing the graffiti the moment it got on the walls, more police officers WALKING on their beat. Guess what? NYC has one the lowest crime rates for a major city. There are still some crime issues in many areas, but for a city of 8 milllion, it has become alot safer. Maybe Portland has something to learn.
It is like I said before: Police the place more heavily, with ON DUTY policemen. I don't want this to be the reason for any mass transit to be scaled back or rejected. I know this feeling because I live in a county where so many people have said NO to MARTA for so long it is making me angry. I have already mentioned the historically reason why Cobb County said no when MARTA was first being built.There is NO rail system out here and the crime rate has been spiking in some places, even where I live and it is supposedly a "safe" suburb. The criminals who attacked me had their own vehicle.
Personally, if there are people in Clark County who don't have cars, I hope for their sake that Clark County gets the light rail. I wish Cobb County would say yes to MARTA. I am very pro-mass transit. I am watching major cities all over the world use mass transit of all kinds and I don't here alot of people in those places complaining or trying to get rid of it. NYC used to have a massive crime problem. NO one got rid of the trains. They started arresting turnstyle jumpers, they started removing the graffiti the moment it got on the walls, more police officers WALKING on their beat. Guess what? NYC has one the lowest crime rates for a major city. There are still some crime issues in many areas, but for a city of 8 milllion, it has become alot safer. Maybe Portland has something to learn.
Well, now, if light-rail actually had turnstiles, it might make a difference. They don't, of course. You just hop on, and relatively few people actually pay. The odds of getting caught are slim, and if you happen to encounter a fare inspector, you just claim that the ticket machine was broken - which is often the case.
Taken together, these are among the reasons why gang-bangers love light rail in Portland.
Personally, I'm pro-mass transit but anti light rail. Buses offer flexibility in routing, unlike fixed rail. They're less expensive to acquire and operate, and proof of payment is required upon boarding. Further, unlike light rail, the driver is not insulated from the riders, and is therefore more easily able to respond to any onboard issues.
I posted a link to a crime map earlier on; the information is dated, but the trend continues as new "extensions" are added. Clackamas County law enforcement have remarked upon the sharp uptick in crime associated with the "Green Line" extension into the County; the most recent assault being among them. Granted, one user here claimed that the law enforcement officials don't know what they're talking about, and went on to claim that coincidence does not imply causality.
On the other hand, the same individual launched a series of personal attacks for no apparent reason; I tend to find the views of law enforcement personnel more believable than his view.
Well, now, if light-rail actually had turnstiles, it might make a difference. They don't, of course. You just hop on, and relatively few people actually pay. The odds of getting caught are slim, and if you happen to encounter a fare inspector, you just claim that the ticket machine was broken - which is often the case.
Taken together, these are among the reasons why gang-bangers love light rail in Portland.
Personally, I'm pro-mass transit but anti light rail. Buses offer flexibility in routing, unlike fixed rail. They're less expensive to acquire and operate, and proof of payment is required upon boarding. Further, unlike light rail, the driver is not insulated from the riders, and is therefore more easily able to respond to any onboard issues.
I posted a link to a crime map earlier on; the information is dated, but the trend continues as new "extensions" are added. Clackamas County law enforcement have remarked upon the sharp uptick in crime associated with the "Green Line" extension into the County; the most recent assault being among them. Granted, one user here claimed that the law enforcement officials don't know what they're talking about, and went on to claim that coincidence does not imply causality.
On the other hand, the same individual launched a series of personal attacks for no apparent reason; I tend to find the views of law enforcement personnel more believable than his view.
Why do you say "relatively few people actually pay"? My car broke down so I ride the MAX to work everyday now and occasionally the fare inspectors came on. They rarely catch anybody these days from what I see. I usually ride rush hours. If the machine is broken, you're suppose to get off at the next stop and buy tickets there. Most machines are now working.
I think we need more fare inspectors, but I also think most people are paying the fares these days.
The MAX has enable me to put off purchasing a new vehicle for a few more months and that's great in my book.
I know they are blaming the MAX for increase in crime around the Clackamas Town Center, but seriously, hasn't that place always been sort of ghetto? I mean they've tried fixing it up recently--but, didn't Tanya Harding used to ice skate there back in the day.
If the MAX ran down the sleazefest of SE 82nd (which is the original route some wanted), would they be blaming the MAX for the expected criminal activity in that area. Probably.
Personally I don't really care about any more of the planned MAX trains--if voters in Milwaukie and Clark County don't want them, then I sure as hell don't care about line expansions going to suburbs that I have no reason to go to, ever. Unless you connect the line into inner SE Portland, a huge section of Portland isn't going to be using the MAX very often anyways. The funny thing about the MAX is how much love it gets from transplants to inner Portland(personally, I'd rather ride the Yellow line in NoPo than most of the buses), yet it's always going to more geared towards people living in the suburbs commuting to downtown and low income folks in the poorer areas on the Eastside.
What does Portland want public transportation for? Today I went to take a bus trip after work to the Hollywood Fred's only to discover the bus I used to take no longer goes there and I had to find a more circuitious route. The bus driver on the alternate route told me the first route was cut back with the advent of the Greenline even though it dosen't go anywhere near that line.
I use buses to get around everywhere because I have no car. Others use public transport only to get to and from work or sometimes special events once in a while. If we are looking only to get from point A to point B then the MAX serves a purpose. If Portland is truly trying to get people out of their cars to travel to a variety of places for a variety of reasons, the MAX just doesn't cut it.
That's the main reason I support increased bus service rather than new MAX lines. Everytime I see a new MAX line I know that bus service in many places will be decreased. That's not serving to get people out of their cars and into public transportation.
Why do you say "relatively few people actually pay"? My car broke down so I ride the MAX to work everyday now and occasionally the fare inspectors came on. They rarely catch anybody these days from what I see. I usually ride rush hours. If the machine is broken, you're suppose to get off at the next stop and buy tickets there. Most machines are now working.
I think we need more fare inspectors, but I also think most people are paying the fares these days.
The MAX has enable me to put off purchasing a new vehicle for a few more months and that's great in my book.
JoJo:
Don't forget you can purchase booklets of 10 TriMet tickets at the service desk of most major Grocery Stores. The tickets don't expire. You can carry a spare in your wallet for the Just-In-Case you need a ride. To use with MAX, you just have to get the ticket "validated" (really just time-stamped when the ticket expires.) Maybe buy now, and save the nickle per ride increase September 5, '10.
Buying 10 tickets from the vending machines at a MAX station is a pain because they take so long to print out each ticket and drop in down to the out bin.
Well, now, if light-rail actually had turnstiles, it might make a difference. They don't, of course. You just hop on, and relatively few people actually pay. The odds of getting caught are slim, and if you happen to encounter a fare inspector, you just claim that the ticket machine was broken - which is often the case.
Taken together, these are among the reasons why gang-bangers love light rail in Portland.
Personally, I'm pro-mass transit but anti light rail. Buses offer flexibility in routing, unlike fixed rail. They're less expensive to acquire and operate, and proof of payment is required upon boarding. Further, unlike light rail, the driver is not insulated from the riders, and is therefore more easily able to respond to any onboard issues.
I posted a link to a crime map earlier on; the information is dated, but the trend continues as new "extensions" are added. Clackamas County law enforcement have remarked upon the sharp uptick in crime associated with the "Green Line" extension into the County; the most recent assault being among them. Granted, one user here claimed that the law enforcement officials don't know what they're talking about, and went on to claim that coincidence does not imply causality.
On the other hand, the same individual launched a series of personal attacks for no apparent reason; I tend to find the views of law enforcement personnel more believable than his view.
In Atlanta, the system is made to where even a good turnstyle jumper would have problems. You have to buy a breeze card or some other card. No tickets are used. You have to scan the ticket before the gate opens, and if you plan to skip the gate, you have to be fast, and there are people to catch you if you try.
I find buses inefficient because they have to ride in the same traffic with cars. With the rail, you have a separate track, so no stalling in traffic. I can attest to the inefficiency of the buses. Where I live, Cobb County has its own bus system. At best it isn't not very good. The schedule might say 9:30, but the bus could come at 9:35 or 9:40. Sometimes the bus driver will take his or her time getting to the particular destination, holding up other riders. I can remember one day I planned my trip to where I could leave the school, and then come back at a certain time. It didn't work because the buses were late and changed drivers as well, wasting alot of time.
In Atlanta, the system is made to where even a good turnstyle jumper would have problems. You have to buy a breeze card or some other card. No tickets are used. You have to scan the ticket before the gate opens, and if you plan to skip the gate, you have to be fast, and there are people to catch you if you try.
That same system could work with proof of payment light rail too. Have the riders buy their tickets from a ticket machine out side, and use it to go through a fair gate into the into the station, which would also validate the ticket at the same time. Have security cameras to monitor the gates, from a central office. With the cameras it would be easy to spot anyone going over the top of the gates. Right away a description of the suspect or suspects could be broadcast to security. A fare inspector could board the train at the next station, locate the suspect(s) and ask for their tickets. Busted, that easy. Should be able to get 95% of fare evaders that way. It would be way more effective then the current systems, of inspectors, just randomly checking tickets.
That same system could work with proof of payment light rail too. Have the riders buy their tickets from a ticket machine out side, and use it to go through a fair gate into the into the station, which would also validate the ticket at the same time. Have security cameras to monitor the gates, from a central office. With the cameras it would be easy to spot anyone going over the top of the gates. Right away a description of the suspect or suspects could be broadcast to security. A fare inspector could board the train at the next station, locate the suspect(s) and ask for their tickets. Busted, that easy. Should be able to get 95% of fare evaders that way. It would be way more effective then the current systems, of inspectors, just randomly checking tickets.
Yes but that would cost millions to install you would have rip out the stations and redo them. It will save you millions but take millions to install , LA is the only city that has plans to do it. I asked my state why they don't they said its too expensive ....
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