Has light rail been a mistake? (Portland, Beaverton: contractors, quality of life, fencing)

[wrcousert]

Originally Posted by actinic

Wow, I just noticed you're already at $2.30 for all-zone and would of been higher were it not for fed stimulus money ... TriMet board votes to increase fares by 5 cents, reduce service | OregonLive.com

Isn't that getting dangerously close to unaffordable for many?

Guess you can thank the rest who live out of state for subsidizing it

It's cheaper than driving.

[maxredline]

Originally Posted by philwithbeard

JoJo:

Don't forget you can purchase booklets of 10 TriMet tickets at the service desk of most major Grocery Stores. The tickets don't expire. You can carry a spare in your wallet for the Just-In-Case you need a ride. To use with MAX, you just have to get the ticket "validated" (really just time-stamped when the ticket expires.) Maybe buy now, and save the nickle per ride increase September 5, '10.

Buying 10 tickets from the vending machines at a MAX station is a pain because they take so long to print out each ticket and drop in down to the out bin.

Actually a good option that I'd forgotten. I do the pass thing, myself, it just eliminates a lot of hassle.

[skylar0201]

Light rail IMO has not been a mistake. Businesses who have had it rough because of the economic status of the state the last several years get breaks for it--why can't the taxpayers who are trying to get to a job get a break? If you lose your vehicle, the trip on Tri-Met even from Gresham to Hillsboro or even from Vancouver to Oregon City is *WELL* worth the money--and a big cost-saver in fuel and wear/tear of your vehicle, which can allow you to get some $ saved up for another vehicle at some point.

There should be *MORE* light rail around the Portland/Vancouver area, including a line from say Clackamas town center to Wilsonville as the traffic on I-205 in the morning and especially afternoon during the week is an utter nightmare. You could take a line out to Beaverton transit center, and the the WES out to Wilsonville, but it stops on the other side of I-5 from most major employers in Wilsonville such as Xerox, Mentor Graphics, InFocus, etc.

[maxredline]

Originally Posted by LeftCoastee

I personally love trains so I'm always biased to favor them. However, I do believe there is signifcant room for improvement to the MAX here. Unless you are fortunate enough to live right on the line, it just doesn't draw people in to use it. Its very limiting in both geography and speed.

Look at the Metra system in Chicago. Its a hub-spoke system that services the entire Chicagoland area. If people don't live right on the line, they will drive to a nearby town to pick it up. Even with the drive to the nearby town, its still faster than driving downtown. That does not appear to be the case here.

I get that there are many reasons why people take public transportation. Being "green" is definitely one of them. Saving on expenses (gas/parking) is another. But a primary reason rail works in other cities is that its faster than driving. Case in point: If I wanted to take trains downtown, it would take me 70 minutes because I'd have to take the WES to Beaverton and then transfer. I live 12 miles from downtown. Even in rush hour traffic, I can drive downtown in 30-45 minutes. If the MAX was laid out so it services more of the surrounding areas and was faster than driving, ridership would grow immensely.

I agree with the poster who said buses weren't attractive because they are no faster than driving. Thats true for me because I have a car. But for people who don't, buses are invaluable. When I lived in Pittsburgh I took the bus downtown to work. I took the bus even though I owned a car. The reason was that Pittsburgh has busways (highways / roads where only buses can go). The buses would be able to avoid some of the gridlock and decrease my travel time. This really made for a compelling reason to take public transit.

Make Portland public transit faster than driving (or walking in some cases) and many goals would be accomplished.

Excellent points. My workplace is right next to a light rail stop. But it's a 20-25-minute drive to the nearest transit center (Sunset). It's a twelve-minute drive straight to work.

[karlsch]

Originally Posted by Deezus

I know they are blaming the MAX for increase in crime around the Clackamas Town Center, but seriously, hasn't that place always been sort of ghetto? I mean they've tried fixing it up recently--but, didn't Tanya Harding used to ice skate there back in the day.

Sometimes people forget that Tonya came from what might be considered a white ghetto, a background that the superior classes would never forget or forgive, even before her problems, and through hard work, sacrifice and talent accomplished things that most people in the superior classes would never dream of:

YouTube - ‪Tonya Harding 1991 Worlds LP‬‎

[PNW-type-gal]

Originally Posted by karlsch

Sometimes people forget that Tonya came from what might be considered a white ghetto, a background that the superior classes would never forget or forgive, even before her problems, and through hard work and talent accomplished things that most people in the superior classes would never dream of:

Nonsense. People rooted for her because of her background, right up until she started showing what a class act she was (not that women's figure skating is exactly populated with large numbers of class acts....)

[philwithbeard]

Originally Posted by skylar0201

....There should be *MORE* light rail around the Portland/Vancouver area, including a line from say Clackamas town center to Wilsonville as the traffic on I-205 in the morning and especially afternoon during the week is an utter nightmare. You could take a line out to Beaverton transit center, and the the WES out to Wilsonville, but it stops on the other side of I-5 from most major employers in Wilsonville such as Xerox, Mentor Graphics, InFocus, etc.

Look at the TriMet System Map, TriMet: Public Transportation for the Portland, Oregon, Metro Area
Wilsonville would be outside the TriMet service area. WES, being a sub-contract service provider, uses heavy rail that was in place, and a route that was in place.

Wilsonville uses SMART bus service:
SMART Transit : Home

SMART also connects to Cherriots Bus service to Salem, OR.
Cherriots Schedules and Maps (http://cherriots.org/schedules_and_maps.htm - broken link)
I think, but have not verified by personal travel, that WES also interconnects with Cherriots bus service to Salem.

So about your idea, SMART, not TriMet, should start an Express bus line service from Clackamas Town Center to Oregon City, then on to Wilsonville, for connection to Cherroits service.

Bottom line, Clackamas County is empowered to expand the SMART service at their own discretion. Just my wild guess, any such expansion would be from the future Orange MAX end of line stop just south of Milwaukie, to Gladstone, Oregon City, then down to Wilsonville. to connect to Cherriots. With maybe a $5.00 'unified' pass / ticket for retired people in Salem trying to get to the VA hospital on Pill Hill. But I could be very wrong on this.

Phil

[maxredline]

I believe that SMART also connects with TriMet; I have seen their little buses at the Barbur Transit station, but have no idea as to their scheduling and/or other routings.

[skylar0201]

Originally Posted by philwithbeard

Look at the TriMet System Map, TriMet: Public Transportation for the Portland, Oregon, Metro Area
Wilsonville would be outside the TriMet service area. WES, being a sub-contract service provider, uses heavy rail that was in place, and a route that was in place.

Wilsonville uses SMART bus service:
SMART Transit : Home

SMART also connects to Cherriots Bus service to Salem, OR.
Cherriots Schedules and Maps (http://cherriots.org/schedules_and_maps.htm - broken link)
I think, but have not verified by personal travel, that WES also interconnects with Cherriots bus service to Salem.

So about your idea, SMART, not TriMet, should start an Express bus line service from Clackamas Town Center to Oregon City, then on to Wilsonville, for connection to Cherroits service.

Bottom line, Clackamas County is empowered to expand the SMART service at their own discretion. Just my wild guess, any such expansion would be from the future Orange MAX end of line stop just south of Milwaukie, to Gladstone, Oregon City, then down to Wilsonville. to connect to Cherriots. With maybe a $5.00 'unified' pass / ticket for retired people in Salem trying to get to the VA hospital on Pill Hill. But I could be very wrong on this.

Phil

Well either SMART bus or Tri-Met--either one would be fine. Yes, Wilsonville is outside of Tri-Met's service area. It ends at Oregon City from the east and in Tualatin from the north. The SMART bus does go to Barbur Blvd transit center, but yes, only during peak times, so if you are working a swing shift getting off work at say anything after 9:30pm, you would not be able to use SMART.

Didn't hear about the Orange line much. I actually live in Milwaukie, and every time it comes up, the debate on funds available becomes a question, and then even if it opens up ( I haven't heard yet of it being approved ) , it is another 2-3 yrs down the line after it is approved. It just amazes me that there is nothing from Oregon City to Wilsonville--absolutely nothing, with so many commuters between those 2 destination points.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by maxredline

Pirate: I'd have less of an issue with light rail here if they incorporated the sort of system you describe for Atlanta. However, there are still issues: snow and ice, and power failures. When these occur, what does TriMet do? They bring in the buses. You never see light rail being used to "rescue" stranded passengers, because it can't. Buses can go where rail does not - and more reliably.

The problem I have with the system in Atlanta is that it doesn't go far enough for my needs. I can't live in DeKalb County or Fulton for economic and location reasons. I have to be in walking distance of my university, and I have too many credits to transfer(not to mention I might lose some credits). If the rail came up to where I lived, I could get to Atlanta easier, or even Marietta faster. Express bus services are being cut and even the express bus services aren't as efficient as rail transit. Buses have to share the road with cars and should be used only within the city. Trains should be used as a faster means of getting around. My idea is this. Use the rail to connect to all of the municipalities and use the buses within the municipality. TriMet should connect all of the suburbs to Portland and use the buses on a smaller scale. It is more efficient than just using buses. MARTA should extend the rail to places like Lawrenceville, Marietta and Kennesaw, and then use the MARTA buses for within Kennesaw, Marietta, and Lawrenceville.