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Old 06-29-2010, 11:33 AM
 
1,433 posts, read 2,970,755 times
Reputation: 889

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
Light rail is a financial loser in every installation in the world but one... Hong Kong. Even cities in right-to-work states that have less union impact cannot control staff/benefit costs and are regularly looking for more tax money to stay afloat.
Yes, but I get the sense people accept light rail so long as it doesn't bleed 'too much'.

What concerns me is what happens if deficits become so large (mismanagement, federal tax subsidy cutbacks, low gas prices) as to force cutbacks to other transportation alternatives. Ultimately the whole transportation issue then becomes a matter of best bang for the buck which means freeways, otherwise why not build magnetically levitated monorails?
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:37 AM
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,785 posts, read 18,744,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actinic View Post
Ultimately the whole transportation issue then becomes a matter of best bang for the buck which means freeways, otherwise why not build magnetically levitated monorails?
Depends on if you can keep building/widening freeways. In Portland, the answer is pretty much "no." We have trouble with what we have - I-5 through the Terwilliger Curves, through the downtown area, through North Portland. Densely populated areas mean it's hard to widen a freeway, much less put something new in.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:49 AM
 
10,952 posts, read 6,705,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell Plotts View Post
cdelena, the same could be said for freeways that route through cities. Let's put a toll on them (which is what a bus/lightrail fare is) for their costs. What we pay in gas tax doesn't cover the expense, by the way.

Light rail makes high density possible. I remember Rose City Transit and Portland's streetcars (they were profit making ventures). Chrysler bought them out, put in stinky buses. From that time forward people purchased a second car and suburbia developed.

Our transit system makes it possible for many families to own just one (or even none) car like we had until the late 1940s.
My mother was born in 1923 and often spoke of how her family went everywhere by streetcar. Too be those networks are now gone. MAX doesn't hold a candle to what those provided.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:55 AM
 
72,816 posts, read 62,152,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner View Post
My mother was born in 1923 and often spoke of how her family went everywhere by streetcar. Too be those networks are now gone. MAX doesn't hold a candle to what those provided.
I blame Henry Ford for that. He bought out the streetcars and ripped them out of the streets. Why? He wanted more people to buy his cars.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:02 PM
 
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Same thing with L.A. A whole network was built under the city in the 1890's-early 1900's. It was never used. When the Metrolink went in almost a century later, they were able to use many of the tunnels that had already been created. Think what L.A. could have become if it had been allowed to "go", and expand. There were streetcars in the 1950's, we took that to downtown and south to Watts to the electronics stores to shop and it was perfectly safe back then.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
127 posts, read 305,547 times
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It's fine. Portland loves taxes, so it's fine. My only gripe is that ice storms render it utterly useless when the roads are shut down. (Portland is like Alaska for 2 weeks of the year). Pretty hokey for a multi-billion dollar endeavor.

Portland's MAX is like an Iraq quagmire. Pedestrians/motorists die, city governments lie, a mistake but a necessary mistake, no evidence of a threat from freeways, too expensive to be worth it, and too many known unknowns knowing what we know and don't know at this time so it's always too premature to call it a failure.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:22 PM
 
9,961 posts, read 17,445,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainierman View Post
It's fine. Portland loves taxes, so it's fine. My only gripe is that ice storms render it utterly useless when the roads are shut down. (Portland is like Alaska for 2 weeks of the year). Pretty hokey for a multi-billion dollar endeavor.

Portland's MAX is like an Iraq quagmire. Pedestrians/motorists die, city governments lie, a mistake but a necessary mistake, no evidence of a threat from freeways, too expensive to be worth it, and too many known unknowns knowing what we know and don't know at this time so it's always too premature to call it a failure.
Wow, that wasn't overdramatic.

Really--the MAX is shut down for two weeks a year? Not in the 7 years I've been riding it daily. Nice Iraq quagmire throwback though---forgot about that term since 2006.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
127 posts, read 305,547 times
Reputation: 182
lol! thought people might like the quagmire bit. I should think of a quagmire haiku.

Frozen MAX.. I'm sure it's resolved now. I recall Trimet had to install plastic flange covers to protect certain cables and wires in addition to adding heated rail switches.
TriMet to fix MAX freezing problems

cut/paste from article:
Now, TriMet officials have decided to replace the mechanisms with heated ones designed to withstand cold temperatures. They were not installed when the lines were built because the agency did not think heated switches were necessary.
“This is one of those ‘lessons learned,’ ” said Steve Banta, the regional transit agency’s executive director of operations. “It was originally thought the climate was moderate enough they would not be needed.”
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:06 PM
 
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Wow, I just noticed you're already at $2.30 for all-zone and would of been higher were it not for fed stimulus money ... TriMet board votes to increase fares by 5 cents, reduce service | OregonLive.com

Isn't that getting dangerously close to unaffordable for many?

Guess you can thank the rest who live out of state for subsidizing it
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:20 PM
 
10,952 posts, read 6,705,025 times
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And that's if you can afford to purchase a monthly ticket, which many can't or don't need so they have to do the $1.75 each way thing.
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