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This post was originally from me on Austin forum, and I would like to put it on Portland forum as well so that I can hear from both sides. One year ago, we almost moved to Portland, but it got blown off in the last minute. Now we get the chance again, and need to make a decision between Portland and Austin. The major concern is the school comparisons, along with career developments and climate. If you happen to know the two cities well, please shed a light on my questions.
First, please excuse me for bring another new thread regarding Austin and Portland. I noticed there has been a similar thread in this forum. Believe me, I have read through the whole discussions and appreciate all the inputs. However I still feel more questions to ask, especially about the public school comparisons between the two cities.
A little bit about us:
we are in the late 30's and are professionals in the high-tech industry. We have a 3-year preschooler, and currently living in bay area, CA and want to get out of here. Hubby has already lined-up a job both in Portland metro and Austin (78746), and I need to launch one after we land in either city. We have been to Portland once in last June, but never been to Austin.
Right now, We are kind of in the swing mood, in that one day we think we'd love to move to Portland and then the next day we favor Austin. The major concerns are:
1. schools, which city has the better public schools?
I heard Eanes ISD, Lake Travis ISD, and RR ISD (Westwood HS) are the top ones in Austin. While in Portland, Lake Oswego schools (but LO is way too far for daily commute), Forest Heights schools, and Beaverton schools are good.
2. The job opportunities and career development
Austin seems to have much broader options out there. But I am sure there are more candidates in the pool than in Portland. So it is hard to say where I can nail a job faster, and which is better for the career development.
3. The climate
Having lived in bay area for a few years, I guess Portland's weather may be easier for us, but I am not sure if we can really stand the 8-month rain and overcast. How about the activities for the kids in the rainy season?
I am a little worried about the freaking hot of Austin. I have lived in northern Florida for many years, but in most of the time I had stayed inside with the AC on. So I even couldn't remember it was a problem. But now, we have a kid, and I can't help wondering how the kids in Austin have fun in the long summer, besides in the swimming pool.
But all in all, the schools would be the deal sealer.
Sorry for the long post. Thank you very much.
PS: Why the home insurance is outrageously high in Austin, say a few hundred bucks per month vs $300/year in Portland?
I am not able to compare Austin public schools to Portland's. There may be various metrics that are nation wide such as SATs, I suggest you look on a school by school basis - not district wide.
Two of my grandchildren will be attending Portland Public Schools in the Lincoln enrollment area. I have absolutely no concerns about the education they will receive.
An earlier poster expressed concern about the number of students in the Forest Heights grade school, something to check out.
Intel is adding a new fab facility, let me assure you that Intel engineers would not move into the area if there were any concern about the education of their children. That said, public school funding is difficult here, and I am sure the same is true of Austin. I know it is true in the Bay area: my other grandchildren are in the Los Altos district, son-in-law teaches at 'Tino HS.
Last edited by Nell Plotts; 10-29-2010 at 04:44 PM..
I am not able to compare Austin public schools to Portland's. There may be various metrics that are nation wide such as SATs, I suggest you look on a school by school basis - not district wide.
Two of my grandchildren will be attending Portland Public Schools in the Lincoln enrollment area. I have absolutely no concerns about the education they will receive.
An earlier poster expressed concern about the number of students in the Forest Heights grade school, something to check out.
Intel is adding a new fab facility, let me assure you that Intel engineers would not move into the area if there were any concern about the education of their children. That said, public school funding is difficult here, and I am sure the same is true of Austin. I know it is true in the Bay area: my other grandchildren are in the Los Altos district, son-in-law teaches at 'Tino HS.
Thank you very much, Nell Plotts. I respect you a lot because I have read a plenty of great responses from you while answering other's questions. Thumbs up!
Yes, I agree with you. I meant to compare the Lincoln HS vs Austin's top HSs, not the whole school district. I heard Lincoln is the best HS in Portland (even better than LO HS?), and made the Silver Medal list of Best US HS from US News and Report. So does the two HSs from Austin. I think the list makes sense because those Bay area HSs on the Gold Medal list are pretty consistent with the parents' recognition. In the elementary level, it looks like Austin has a smaller class size. I am wondering where I can get some statistics on the colleges Lincoln graduates attended.
Nell, I think you made a good point about the Intel's engineers. This is what I keep on persuading me and my hubby. I heard many of them follow the path of Bethany Elementary - Art of Communications - SST
regarding to the kids education.
I also heard the news about Intel's expansion in Oregon. Congrats!
They say there are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics. I was reading a report about Portland Public Schools somewhere and I forget the exact number, but I remember that PPS has one of the lowest graduation rates of major cities in the country. I believe it's lower than LA and New York public schools (district-wide) BUT it most of the kids are white, middle class, and native English speakers. But I don't really know...
Gator: I lived in Austin last year from January until last October. I moved to Portland last October from Austin. I'm also a techie like you. So I've got firsthand knowledge on every aspect of this topic.
You state your main requirements are schools, followed by career and climate.
Schools: Oregon's schools are better, in my opinion. Significantly better? Depends on where you go. The thing with the ISD's in Texas is that they're independent, which means that there are great ones, and not-so-great ones. Portland's schools are state-run, which means you're going to get more consistency.
Career: Austin has Oregon beat every day and five times on Sundays. Oregon has one of the worst job markets in the entire country, as well as one of the most oppressive tax systems. There are almost no jobs in the tech sector ANYWHERE in the area. The area boasts that it is home to chipmaking giant Intel, but Intel typically only hires H1(b) workers from India, not domestic workers. Domestic workers are typically only offered perma-temp contracts which pay 60 cents on the dollar for their worth. All that talk about the jobs Intel is creating in Oregon with their expansion is a bunch of bo,llocks. It's going to create a lot of jobs for people who presently live in Mumbai or New Delhi, NOT for those in Oregon. Austin's pay for tech workers isn't exactly the best in the nation, but it was a fair wage for the cost of living in the area. One thing to note is that Texas has no state income tax, while Portland has the most oppressive income tax in the entire country. You will keep significantly more of your money in Texas. And it goes without saying that you better hope neither one of you lose your job if you come to Portland, because you won't be finding another. I have many, many friends who ran into this situation. (Edit: Just saw that you state you don't have one lined up yet. All I can say if you move to PDX is "good luck")
Climate: Climate is one of the biggest reasons I left Austin. I couldn't handle the heat. It gets RIDICULOUSLY hot during the summer. Just unbearably so (for me, the locals didn't seem to mind it so much). Now, that being said, In Portland, it RAINS. I don't mean it mists like it does in Seattle or the Bay area. I mean it rains. Pouring frigging rain. THat's a personal choice as to which you would prefer - unbearable summers or intolerable autumns/winters/springs. As to what there is to do for the kids in summer? You take them to Schlitterbahn, the world's largest waterpark. Or you take them to Six Flags. Or Sea World. Portland has none of these things - there's nary a respectable amusement park within 700 miles of Portland. You have them play later in the afternoon when things cool off a bit and they can actually go outside.
Insurance costs more in Texas because it has a higher rate of property crimes, due to all the illegal aliens.
Random:
-You said 78746...the only tech company I can think of in that zip code is Solarwinds (no, Oregon green types, it's not a green energy company). Is that where the job offer is?
-Keep in mind that although both cities have the slogan "Keep _____ Weird" (it originated in Austin, Portland has tried to poach it) that the two cities are not much alike. Austin is very much a come as you are, we accept all walks of life and all beliefs sort of town. Portland is very much a vigilante hippie kind of area, where if you aren't into extreme left points of view, you aren't going to get along as well socially. You will have to put up with a significantly more aggressive personality type in Portland than you will in Austin. Both are laden with hippies, but the Austin hippies don't try to impose their lifestyles on you like the ones in Portland do.
One other thing to consider is Austin has one of the best schools in the country right downtown in the University of Texas. If you're a Texas resident and graduate high school down there, they are required by law to grant you admission to it, which is a huge perk. That being said, the Northwest has a number of great universities (including the University of Washington, which blows UT out of the water), but their admission standards aren't as set in stone like Texas's, and they aren't local to the city. Closest thing to a university Portland has is Portland State, which is a joke of a school.
-As alluded to, Texas lets you keep more of your money. There is no income tax, the property taxes are less, and you pay about a dollar a gallon less for fuel there than you will in Oregon. Food is also cheaper down there, as well.
-Lastly, I should point out that while I moved to Portland last October...I moved to Seattle THIS October. Couldn't take it anymore. THe regressive tax structure, the horrible economy, the personality types, everything...just couldn't stand it. It actually made me sort of miss Austin, and Austin and I didn't get along because I'm a cold weather person, so the weather was absolutely killing me. My fiancee, who is from Austin, also could not get out of PDX fast enough. She absolutely HATED Portland. Significantly more than I ever could. She hated everything about that city. And it wasn't just due to climate, because she's in Seattle with me now, and she's fine.
So anyone who tells you the two cities are the same is full of it.
Last edited by Xanathos; 10-30-2010 at 04:05 AM..
Reason: Spelling/grammar
Portland schools are state run??? News to me, but the state does pay a substantial portion of the cost of operating schools out of the State income tax. This resulted from the fact that there is income disparity across the state and property taxes in some communities are insufficient to sustain a quality education. The state does set curriculum requirements.
HS graduation rate? I don't know what the statistics are but there is one program that can impact that: Portland HS juniors can finish school at a community college. One of my nephews could not relate to the classes offered at Lincoln, he didn't see himself as college material. He switched to the CC, earned a high school diploma and an associates degree - but it took him a while. He has a great job and is considering college. Some HS students transfer to CC because they want to accelerate their college education. Tracking students who change HS districts or move to CC would be difficult. I would look to census data as a more reliable source (it is available by city, county and tract) of the % of the young adult population with a HS diploma. [I would focus on young adults because they would have recent exposure to public education.]
Portland State University is not a 'joke of a university'. Each of the state universities has a constituency and the department of higher education tries to prevent redundant programs, believing that concentrating students with specific educational goals provides a better education. That said, PSU offers more social service majors than the other schools, whether or not those programs are a 'joke' is really more about values than programs. [Says I, a Mathematics major. For the life of me I cannot understand why someone would choose a program that essentially requires a master's degree for a job that pays so little. The only comparable life choice is Theology. Exiting soap box-- ] In my experience few HS students want to be a townie college student.
Technology professionals are more interested in Oregon Graduate Center, a post baccalaureate school.
For a given level of services a state must figure out how to pay for it, unfortunately money does not grow on trees - although for many many years Oregon received timber severance money (the spotted owl issue pretty much stopped that). Most of Oregon's public service revenue comes from income and property taxes. Texas and Wyoming have their own resource tax on oil. Washington at first glance looks like a great place to do business but there is a reason why businesses tend to locate on the south side of the Columbia River - Washington taxes business on gross receipts, not profits. Let's admit it, taxation is a game people play with their government.. a bit like dodge ball.
FYI, we recently moved back from Seattle metro (after 15 years) to Portland. For technology professionals the employment markets are somewhat different, Seattle metro is more software, Portland metro more hardware. Not exclusively in either case but predominantly. For example the Silicon Valley and Oregon are the west coast centers for security software development. These concentrations are accidents of history which I won't bore you with today.
Last edited by Nell Plotts; 10-30-2010 at 11:19 AM..
Portland schools are state run??? News to me, but the state does pay a substantial portion of the cost of operating schools out of the State income tax. This resulted from the fact that there is income disparity across the state and property taxes in some communities are insufficient to sustain a quality education. The state does set curriculum requirements.
You just described state-run. Not sure why you're trying to argue it's not.
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HS graduation rate? I don't know what the statistics are but there is one program that can impact that: Portland HS juniors can finish school at a community college.
And this is why I give the edge to Portland schools. One of my friends' kids graduated high school with enough credits to be halfway to his sophomore year in university, and is now attending Princeton. In Texas, he'd be a Freshman somewhere.
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Portland State University is not a 'joke of a university'.
Yes, yes it is. My fiancee went there for one term. Aside from the fact that they lost her transfer paperwork from Texas not once, not twice, but THREE times, failed to file her FAFSA information until the 8th week of the term, tried billing her for double the credits she signed up for, didn't properly tabulate her credits earned, and numerous other administrative infractions, there was the issue that she equated the quality of the classes she took as "that of a community college". Given that PSU is a 4 year university, yes, that makes it a joke. It is a poorly run place.
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Technology professionals are more interested in Oregon Graduate Center, a post baccalaureate school.
And you've just proven you know nothing about the technology industry. For one, technology professionals are more interested in OIT, which is actually a pretty good little place. Little is an unfortunate keyword, though. Second, technology professionals don't care about post-baccalaureate degrees. Why? Because they get you nowhere. The information gleaned from specializing in the field is only technologically relevant for approximately 6 years, on average. Experience and certifications are where it's at in this field - degrees mean almost nothing, except when you're just starting out.
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For a given level of services a state must figure out how to pay for it, unfortunately money does not grow on trees -
Yes, and Oregon's belief is that they should never live within a budget, but merely should "redistribute" more money from those who are successful into bloated programs that are not a high priority or that reward those who are not; then go to the public and say "we ran out of money for policemen/firemen/teachers"....because we just spent it all on entitlement programs and green pet projects and various other 2nd and 3rd tier priority items".
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"Texas and Wyoming have their own resource tax on oil. Washington at first glance looks like a great place to do business but there is a reason why businesses tend to locate on the south side of the Columbia River - Washington taxes business on gross receipts, not profits."
You're comparing setting up a business in Portland to setting up a business in Vancouver. Try coming up with a list of notable companies that actively choose Portland over Seattle. Aside from the few that the state gives ridiculous tax incentives to just so the state doesn't go completely unemployed.
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FYI, we recently moved back from Seattle metro (after 15 years) to Portland. For technology professionals the employment markets are somewhat different, Seattle metro is more software, Portland metro more hardware.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG. I'm on the hardware side of things (network security, systems administration and analysis, routing/switching, design & enterprise engineering). Portland has NOTHING in that field. Again, the only thing Portland has a claim to is a chip maker - one that doesn't hire very many Portland locals. They've got a couple of cloud plays in the area, but they're small. Seattle, on the hardware side, is home to companies like F5, Anitian, and a million other hardware specialists.
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For example the Silicon Valley and Oregon are the west coast centers for security software development.
Again, wrong. San Francisco is a concentration of everything. Oregon is a concentration of manufacturing. There is not ONE notable software company (and especially not a company specializing in security) that's based in Oregon (unless you count Intel's recent acquisition of McAfee, which hasn't even gone through yet). Meanwhile, again, I can list a myriad in either Seattle or San Francisco. You don't know this industry. At all.
You are entitled to your opinions, I am to mine. If you are doing better in Seattle than you did in Portland I think that is great. The OP is comparing Portland & Austin metros areas. If Seattle were one of her options then we can explore that, or better yet explore that on the Seattle forum.
FYI one of my children is the CFO of a VC on Sand Hill Road, one of my nephews writes code for operating systems. I do know a thing or two about the industry but my sense of history is doubtless different than yours as my next birthday will be my 70th. The reason why many high tech firms are headquartered in the Silicon Valley is Stanford and UC Berkley, there is no way I would compare OTI to those institutions. If Bill Gates hadn't wanted to move from the Bay area to his home in Seattle Microsoft would be there too. In technology there is synergy in groups with similar interests.
Last edited by Nell Plotts; 10-30-2010 at 01:52 PM..
Schools: Although my kid is only 3 year old, I am seriously thinking about the high schools. I understand things can change a lot over 10 years. LOL. So for the school comparisons, I pull the best ones from both cities. So, it is Lincoln in Portland vs WestLake and Westwood in Austin. I definitely need to do more homework.
Career: Intel's Hillsboro site is tremendous. Tektronix, Mentor Graphics headquarters in Portland Metro. EMC, VMware, Xerox, and McAfee all have development divisions other than only sales. Besides there are many local small high-tech companies that I surely don't know. But overall it looks like Portland is not huge in software development. If I have ever heard from Intel@Hillsboro, we may have made the decision easily.
Once I have thought of Seattle which provides better chance for my career than Portland, but that is not preferable for my hubby. Seattle seems not strong on IC design industry, although you have named a few in your post. Am I wrong here?
Climate: Bay area had very countable days over 90 in this summer. But it seemed unbearable for us already. Boy, we must be spoiled. It was a myth for me why I never complained the summer in Norther Florida unbearable, while in Bay area, I get very nervous and panic when it hits 90.
UT@Austin is another big factor. But I was told in-state kids of top 10% can secure a seat in UT. I was stunned though because I had guessed it as top 30% in the best high schools. I wished Portland had a one as good as UT@Austin.
PS: Intel@Austin is located in 78746 area.
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mood, in that one day we think we'd love to move to Portland and then the next day we favor Austin. The major concerns are:
), and made the Silver Medal list of Best US HS from US News and Report. So does the two HSs from Austin. I think the list makes sense because those Bay area HSs on the Gold Medal list are pretty consistent with the parents' recognition. In the elementary level, it looks like Austin has a smaller class size. I am wondering where I can get some statistics on the colleges Lincoln graduates attended. 
I understand things can change a lot over 10 years. LOL. So for the school comparisons, I pull the best ones from both cities. So, it is Lincoln in Portland vs WestLake and Westwood in Austin. I definitely need to do more homework. 
If I have ever heard from Intel@Hillsboro, we may have made the decision easily.
