Not happy in Portland (Dallas, Phoenix: rent, hotels, neighborhood)

[UrbanAdventurer]

Originally Posted by sayulita

Again, tone is often misunderstood in these cases. I meant WE, as in Portland as a whole, not here on CD. And I did not feel accused in the least and am certainly not foaming at the mouth. I also based my comments and observations similarly. After 36 years in Portland and 24 years working and playing downtown in advertising, my opinion is as valid as yours. I would like to know where and when you've heard Portland as a whole described as vibrant and fascinating. I submit that you heard those words in the context of the food scene here, which indeed it is.

Hip, cool, happening, whatever. Maybe the terms vibrant and fascinating weren't spot on. I suppose everybody has a different opinion of what "hip, cool and happening" means though. Clearly people are being misled into believing Portland is somehow more than it really is, or this thread wouldn't exist. The crowds are at the mall out in Tigard on Sunday just like they are in the rest of car and suburb loving middle America. I accept that, as lame as it is. Most of downtown is a good place for a nap on Sunday. Hardly anyone cares to be down there in their free time because it's just not a very happening or interesting place to be to most people.

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer

Hip, cool, happening, whatever. Maybe the terms vibrant and fascinating weren't spot on. I suppose everybody has a different opinion of what "hip, cool and happening" means though. Clearly people are being misled into believing Portland is somehow more than it really is, or this thread wouldn't exist. The crowds are at the mall out in Tigard on Sunday just like they are in the rest of car and suburb loving middle America. I accept that, as lame as it is. Most of downtown is a good place for a nap on Sunday. Hardly anyone cares to be down there in their free time because it's just not a very happening or interesting place to be to most people.

I've never been to the mall at Tigard much so I can't speak of how vibrant it is on a Sunday. The downtown core might not be very active on weekends--because it's mostly a work week location except for a few busy areas like Pioneer Square or near Saturday Market or during the big summer events and festivals. However there are plenty of other areas around downtown like the Pearl District or NW 21st/23rd, that are lively with folks shopping, eating, maybe going to a show at the Crystal Ballroom or a Timbers game. The area around Powells/Crystal is usually pretty busy in terms of restaurant traffic and shoppers as well.

Plus Portland is really a city of neighborhoods... I ride my bike down Mississippi or Alberta on a sunny weekend day(or even a frequent overcast one) and I see tons of people out and about having a drink at places with outdoor seating or shopping at local stores. Enough so that, it's impossible to park anywhere around those areas sometimes. Even more so if you go into SE Portland neighborhoods like around Hawthorne. A lot of people who live on the eastside don't feel much need to go downtown on weekends unless there's a show or special event going on. But that's true in a lot of cities--the concept of just having a downtown that's a hub for all activities is pretty rare and outdated these days.

It's not San Francisco or New York of course but who in their right minds would ever expect it to be? Those cities are anomalies anyways in terms of urban density when you look at the range of American cities. But there's big chunks of downtown San Francisco that are going to feel dead on a Sundays as well--once you get away from Union Square or places like the area around MOMA south of Market Street or even Chinatown which will be completely dead by late Sunday afternoon.

[Bluesmama]

Well, I don't know about the rest of the posters in this thread. But Sunday is my day to not go anywhere, because I want the time to stretch slowly before the dreaded Monday morning. In fact, Thursday is usually my preferred night out to do anything. And during the summer months there are things to enjoy out in the burbs, too. We have movie theaters and parks ~ some dang nice ones in Hillsboro ~ and even concerts in the summer. There is NO NEED to go to Portland for all of these unless it's to see a band I like ~ which we've done often. And, of course, enjoy a good restaurant there.

I don't do Mall Hell except during the holiday season.

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer

Unfortunately, not many in this country outside of those two. Vancouver BC would be the most glaring "vibrant/fascinating city" example who's metro area compares very closely in size to Portland. To be point blank, that city does make Portland seem very quiet and dull by comparison.

Yet Vancouver is lame enough to claim world-class nightlife and yet have bars with last call before midnight. Even Portland and Seattle can kick Vancouver's ass in that regard. Outside of Granville Street-which is packed full of little suburban 19 year olds getting wasted--Vancouver often feels like a go to sleep early type of place. And the times I've stayed in downtown Vancouver away from the West End--a lot of it seemed pretty empty on weekend nights. Don't get me wrong, Vancouver's a nice city--although if you talk to Canadians from Toronto or Montreal it is looked on as provincial and boring.

[sayulita]

Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer

Hip, cool, happening, whatever. Maybe the terms vibrant and fascinating weren't spot on. I suppose everybody has a different opinion of what "hip, cool and happening" means though. Clearly people are being misled into believing Portland is somehow more than it really is, or this thread wouldn't exist. The crowds are at the mall out in Tigard on Sunday just like they are in the rest of car and suburb loving middle America. I accept that, as lame as it is. Most of downtown is a good place for a nap on Sunday. Hardly anyone cares to be down there in their free time because it's just not a very happening or interesting place to be to most people.

I sort of, mostly, agree with you here. But I don't really know why downtown is so dead on Sunday and how it compares to other places, exciting or not. Does Manhattan bustle as much on Sunday as on Wednesday? As much at midnight as at noon? Are the stores and galleries open 7 days a week? Are a lot of cultural events happening on Sunday? And how much of it is driven by tourist activity, rather than the locals? I really don't know.
By no stretch of the imagination have I ever been taken for a cool, hip, happening gal, so I really don't know what hipness it is that is so compelling it draws some people here. I do know however, that the "grass is greener" mentality compels a lot of human behavior. I think people hear about a happening aspect of Portland and it draws them here. Then when they get here, the mundane realities of life everywhere set in and they realize that whatever it was that so attracted them may exist, but the partaking of said coolness only occupies about 1% of their life. The other 99% is working (or looking for work)-eating-sleeping-laundry-etc. It's a cruel awakening and a huge downer realizing you have uprooted your life to chase an illusion. But if you have done your research and move here for all the right reasons, there is a good chance you will bloom where you grow.
And I agree also with the previous poster about life in the neighborhoods as opposed to downtown. When I worked downtown, the last thing I wanted to do was go down there on the weekends. I ate out and played in my own neighborhood.

[UrbanAdventurer]

Originally Posted by Deezus

I've never been to the mall at Tigard much so I can't speak of how vibrant it is on a Sunday.

It's like somebody dropped you in the middle of Times Square. (Okay I exagerate...a little.)

[hamellr]

Originally Posted by sayulita

I sort of, mostly, agree with you here. But I don't really know why downtown is so dead on Sunday and how it compares to other places, exciting or not.

Because we spent decades building roads to move people out of the Downtown area, and they promptly did so. We then raised taxes in the Downtown area that forced businesses out, who then went to the "new" shopping malls being built in the suburbs to closer to their consumers.

This lead to blight in Downtown areas across the US in the 80s, redevelopment in the 90's and 00's. But now it's too little too late, the people living in the downtown area can't support the business there without injections of people from the suburbs.

Yet people from the suburbs don't want to come down due to poor traffic, poor parking, high cost of parking, high cost of basic goods. It's a vicious cycle that in the long run has no good answer.

[joer11]

Originally Posted by sayulita

I'd have to disagree with you on this. Firstly, WE aren't doing the hyping. Secondly, the hype of recent years is mainly on the food front. News of some outstanding restaurants, innovative food carts, and award winning farmer's markets have reached the pages of nationally known newspapers and magazines. This, coupled with our "little Beirut" reputation, our "green" sensibility and "weird" vibe, has somehow become a lightening rod for some folks as a utopia of some sort. But I really don't think the descriptors "hugely vibrant and fascinating" are ever applied to the city as a whole. Just the food scene. We are hardly known for our jumping nightlife or music scene, and yeah, it is pretty quiet downtown at night. As opposed to New York, and yes, even LA, we are most decidedly not a 24 hour hoppin' place. But dang, we can sure feed you well.

yes the food is delicious.

[sayulita]

Originally Posted by hamellr

Because we spent decades building roads to move people out of the Downtown area, and they promptly did so. We then raised taxes in the Downtown area that forced businesses out, who then went to the "new" shopping malls being built in the suburbs to closer to their consumers.

This lead to blight in Downtown areas across the US in the 80s, redevelopment in the 90's and 00's. But now it's too little too late, the people living in the downtown area can't support the business there without injections of people from the suburbs.

Yet people from the suburbs don't want to come down due to poor traffic, poor parking, high cost of parking, high cost of basic goods. It's a vicious cycle that in the long run has no good answer.

So true. It really irks me that they are charging for parking on Sundays now. If the only movies I ever want to see weren't playing only at the Fox Regal, I'd never go downtown. Why can't some of the independent films play anywhere except downtown. Between the cost of the movie AND parking, it gets prohibitive. In most cases I just wait until I can get it on cable or Netflix.

[EnricoV]

Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer

Here's all I'm saying; Portland gets hyped lately as this hugely vibrant and fascinating place. My assertion is that's hype and borderline poppycock...it's much closer to your typical American suburban-centric car culture city than people want to admit and nobody needs to try and BS me otherwise...I've lived/worked/played here for quite awhile. If it weren't, companies like Nike would probably have their world headquarters in a 60 story high-rise downtown instead of some sprawling campus out in suburbia. Portland is not that kind of town though. A spade is a tiny shovel...I call things the way I see them and spare people the hype.

Yeah, and I guess that companies like Nike don't have their "sprawling campus" out in suburbia because it was where they could purchase the land for next-to-nothing? Or, maybe even perhaps because there cannot be a 60 story high-rise downtown due to height restrictions? And I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that it's a sports company, and their "campus" includes soccer fields, tennis courts, running tracks, jogging and running trails, volleyball courts, etc. That would all fit so nicely into a downtown high-rise. I'm sure it's only because they recognized that Portland is a typical suburban-centric city - and all that other stuff had nothing to do with it.