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From my experience actual freethinkers don't actually call themselves freethinkers because they have no need to do so. People who self proclaim themselves as freethinkers are actually just following most recent trends and think themselves better than the rest of humanity because of it.
Husband has a BS in Physics and is finishing his BS in Computer Science at the end of this year. He will be looking for an entry level software engineer job in the area after graduation, so at the end of this year.
Any recommendations as far as work in the computer science field or good companies to look into or avoid?
How easy would you say it would be to get a job as an out of stater?
There are lots of IT jobs in Portland. Unfortunately they come in two flavors, Help Desk and "eight years experience minimum." On top of that there is a huge number of unemployed IT geeks already hear. Fresh out of school, your husbands odds of getting a job in the field is pretty close to zero. It's not towards your husband, but rather a matter of economics. I can hire someone fresh out of school at $35k a year, then train them for six months before I start seeing a return on investment or any meaningful work.
Or I can hire the guy who originally wrote the software for a couple of hundred bucks an hour to make the changes I needed and have them done in a week.
If your husband wants to break into the software industry in any way, he either needs to start learning Ruby, Java and/or IOS Programming skills. Or you need to move to SF or LA to become a QA person for one of the big software houses.
Jobs in Portland in general tend to be word of mouth. If you do come here despite my warning above, then your husband is going to need to hit up every IT networking group he can find. Join user groups and meet every IT person he can.
So I see you said in the NC forum "We've considered Portland and Denver as alternatives, but they are missing the warmth that I love about the South, (and a lot of other things) so how Southern does NC consider itself? My husband said it seems like it's the South of the North and the North of the South. Maybe a good mix of both worlds?"
Does that mean you have made your decision and ruled out Portland at this point? I think it is true that people in the PNW are not as open as Southerners as a rule. At least that is what the Southerners I know who have moved here from the South have told me.
I do think Raleigh sounds a lot more up our alley, though Portland sounds like it would be a fantastic place to spend a week or two in the Summer.
There are lots of IT jobs in Portland. Unfortunately they come in two flavors, Help Desk and "eight years experience minimum." On top of that there is a huge number of unemployed IT geeks already hear. Fresh out of school, your husbands odds of getting a job in the field is pretty close to zero. It's not towards your husband, but rather a matter of economics. I can hire someone fresh out of school at $35k a year, then train them for six months before I start seeing a return on investment or any meaningful work.
Or I can hire the guy who originally wrote the software for a couple of hundred bucks an hour to make the changes I needed and have them done in a week.
If your husband wants to break into the software industry in any way, he either needs to start learning Ruby, Java and/or IOS Programming skills. Or you need to move to SF or LA to become a QA person for one of the big software houses.
Jobs in Portland in general tend to be word of mouth. If you do come here despite my warning above, then your husband is going to need to hit up every IT networking group he can find. Join user groups and meet every IT person he can.
I greatly appreciate your warning. It sounds exactly as we suspected. SF and L.A. could not be less desirable to us, so I think we are headed the right direction in looking to Raleigh. I have to say, your hiring habits make my stomach churn. Does a BS CS graduate really only have a starting salary of 35K in Portland? I can't imagine anyone accepting that low of a salary in a city with such a high cost of living.
I greatly appreciate your warning. It sounds exactly as we suspected. SF and L.A. could not be less desirable to us, so I think we are headed the right direction in looking to Raleigh. I have to say, your hiring habits make my stomach churn. Does a BS CS graduate really only have a starting salary of 35K in Portland? I can't imagine anyone accepting that low of a salary in a city with such a high cost of living.
This is not just a Portland problem. The problem is that CS degrees a pretty generic. They're easy to pick up, and are usually out of date by the time you graduate. Add in the modern world of outsourcing and contractors and it doesn't make sense to hire an entry level person anymore with no experience or any specific skills.
I can literally find sixteen year old kids who have as much knowledge as the average CS grad. The only thing a CS degree gives you over self experience is some formalized training on how to work within a team.
Like I said, if your husband has some very specific skills and can prove it, then he'll be able to get a job easily.
From my experience actual freethinkers don't actually call themselves freethinkers because they have no need to do so. People who self proclaim themselves as freethinkers are actually just following most recent trends and think themselves better than the rest of humanity because of it.
Does your experience include having a relationship with a freethinker? What did they call themselves? If they were a true freethinker, they would certainly call themselves such, unless, like me (until rather recently), they did not know there was a "label" to identify with. Upon learning the definition of the "label" they would surely embrace it, or they themselves would be merely a poser.
I greatly appreciate your warning. It sounds exactly as we suspected. SF and L.A. could not be less desirable to us, so I think we are headed the right direction in looking to Raleigh. I have to say, your hiring habits make my stomach churn. Does a BS CS graduate really only have a starting salary of 35K in Portland? I can't imagine anyone accepting that low of a salary in a city with such a high cost of living.
You are being a bit hard on hamellr. A starting salary of $35,000 for many people in many industries in Portland would be very acceptable. I am being serious here. It's not just him or his industry. It's kind of the way Portland is right now.
I worked for a very large insurance company before I retired a couple of years ago. In my department, which was entry level for the training for other departments, the starting salary was less than this. People were thrilled to get it. We hired from temp agencies. And many of the people we hired had college degrees and had prior experience in all different industries including IT.
Those with computer skills who were of the higher level of which hamellr is describing got the higher paying jobs and were of course recruited differently for the more technical jobs. But those of your husband's training, experience and skills would have only been qualified to begin to work at the level in my area. And they would never be used in the high tech areas. They could eventually work at the help desk or minor computer jobs or non-related computer work.
This is pretty much true of all Portland companies especially those like mine that did train people to advance into better jobs but usually they had to take classes in a specific field and wait for an opening after they are trained.
All this is because Portland is overly saturated with many qualified, experienced people for employers from which to choose so they are going to choose those who can hit the ground running.
So you don't have to imagine people taking $35,000 as a starting salary, because it's very real. If people want to live here, they find a way. And obviously they feel it's worth it because so many do.
I think from what you have told us about your wants and needs, Raleigh is a better choice for you and your family. But that's what CD is all about, finding out what works for you when it comes to relocation.
Raleigh is the exception to the Southern cities . There are quite a bit of transplanters in Raleigh especially in the Research Triangle and Cary.
The town of Cary is nice but a tad bit Stepford Wives. Apex has some real nice neighborhoods. Chapel Hill is very nice but is a bit of a drive to Raleigh during rush hour.
Hope this helps.
Here is to you guys and hoping you find jobs and become "paid" thinkers.
Raleigh is the exception to the Southern cities . There are quite a bit of transplanters in Raleigh especially in the Research Triangle and Cary.
The town of Cary is nice but a tad bit Stepford Wives. Apex has some real nice neighborhoods. Chapel Hill is very nice but is a bit of a drive to Raleigh during rush hour.
Hope this helps.
Here is to you guys and hoping you find jobs and become "paid" thinkers.
I hope to see "the South" continuing on its trend towards becoming more progressive. Raleigh is definitely leading the way and I'd be proud to raise my family there to contribute. Education is key for that to happen (hence the ripple effect outside of the major universities in the Triangle area), and I am proud that my husband has pursued education, despite the many sacrifices we've made. It may cost a pretty penny, but it is worth far more- and it will pay off in the end. We're paying thinkers right now.
You are being a bit hard on hamellr. A starting salary of $35,000 for many people in many industries in Portland would be very acceptable. I am being serious here. It's not just him or his industry. It's kind of the way Portland is right now.
I worked for a very large insurance company before I retired a couple of years ago. In my department, which was entry level for the training for other departments, the starting salary was less than this. People were thrilled to get it. We hired from temp agencies. And many of the people we hired had college degrees and had prior experience in all different industries including IT.
Those with computer skills who were of the higher level of which hamellr is describing got the higher paying jobs and were of course recruited differently for the more technical jobs. But those of your husband's training, experience and skills would have only been qualified to begin to work at the level in my area. And they would never be used in the high tech areas. They could eventually work at the help desk or minor computer jobs or non-related computer work.
This is pretty much true of all Portland companies especially those like mine that did train people to advance into better jobs but usually they had to take classes in a specific field and wait for an opening after they are trained.
All this is because Portland is overly saturated with many qualified, experienced people for employers from which to choose so they are going to choose those who can hit the ground running.
So you don't have to imagine people taking $35,000 as a starting salary, because it's very real. If people want to live here, they find a way. And obviously they feel it's worth it because so many do.
I think from what you have told us about your wants and needs, Raleigh is a better choice for you and your family. But that's what CD is all about, finding out what works for you when it comes to relocation.
I'm beginning to think that you didn't read all of my responses. My husband has a BS in Physics and is soon to graduate with his BS in Computer Science. He also served 6 years in a technical field in the Air Force and has supervisor experience. Some of his areas of interest include Computational Biology and Physics, as well as software developing for science minded jobs. Considering that statistics show that the average Computer Science graduate receives 2 job offers before the end of graduation, and the average salary for a software engineer (level 1) in Portland and Raleigh is $60K, low end being $49K, I think $35K is a pretty lowball offer.
I worked in a call center for a bank with no experience and no college degree and made just under $35K, and that was living in Louisiana where the cost of living is dirt cheap. I suppose people so desperate to live in Portland are free to pursue what makes them happy, but goodness, maybe relocation and spreading the talent wouldn't hurt the pocketbooks OR the job market!
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