Gresham seems to be getting tacky (Portland, Troutdale: middle-class, apartments, city hall)

[oregonwoodsmoke]

Originally Posted by westboundrambler

Is everyone on this Forum well off? The lower class gets ragged on a lot on this board.

They would not get ragged on if they would behave well.

Low income is not actually a valid excuse for antisocial behavior, or living in filth, or destructive behavior.

[SETabor]

Originally Posted by westboundrambler

Per one person? I'd say making $30,000+ a year. Couples 50,000-60,000+ a year.

I don't know that I would call that well off. Certainly not poor but in my opinion, well off means being upper middle class, like choosing where to live based solely on the neighborhood and not where you can afford to buy.

As for why poorer neighborhoods tend to look tackier, poorer people generally rent. Someone who rents a house typically won't care for it the way that an owner does. Lower rent apartment buildings aren't as well maintained or built as high rent apartment buildings. And renters tend to be more transient so they don't care as much that the neighborhood park is well maintained. All that tends to make lower income neighborhoods look shoddier.

[Steve Pickering]

Half the houses in Dalles are rentals. It has maybe ten that are trashed. That theory doesn't fly, although it has some validity.

[westboundrambler]

Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke

Low income is not actually a valid excuse for antisocial behavior, or living in filth, or destructive behavior.

No one said it was.

[Steve Pickering]

Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke

... ... Low income is not actually a valid excuse for antisocial behavior, or living in filth, or destructive behavior.

Originally Posted by westboundrambler

No one said it was.

But it does describe that area well.

[AndyAMG]

The people I know who are poor-which includes some family members-are exactly the same. They always tend to hang out with like minded people, compounding the situation.

My brother-in-law is constantly asking me for money even though he has a job that pays $14/hr and a roommate (where is his money going?) He asks me for money like it's no big deal. It would hurt my pride A LOT to ever ask a family member for money.

My Sister-in-law/brother-in-law-in-law are in their 20's, uneducated, completely aimless, working minimum wage jobs. The only skills they possess are internet browsing and gaming. Instead of trying to better themselves and planning ahead, they moved in with a dirt merchant couple "to save money" but all they do is go out and party and waste money. All I know is the money they owe us (a significant sum) is always late for some BS excuse, they can never just man-up and tell us they pissed it away. The car I bought them hasn't been washed as far as I can tell. It already has a big dent in the door, so even if I wanted it back for non-payment it's not worth what it was originally. Their house is always filthy, I MEAN FIL-THY. They have 3 nasty cats and 2 big ass dogs. They are a landlords nightmare.

The reason I bring them up is they are.

I would never let someone buy me something significant then do everything in my power to show them how little I appreciate a very generous gift. Anyway, most poor people are not just poor monitarily but poor in character. I would say lack of character leads to lack of financial success.

My definition of poor is a family (Wife, Husband, Kids or up to 3 kids) living on less than $4000 a month after taxes (50kyr clear) or about 60 gross. A single person can get by on 30k gross . A mortgage on an "okay" not even a great house here will burn up half or better than that.

Look, I know that some people just don't make a lot of money, but usually that's not by their choice. Some people are responsible and are just trying to make a living, and eventually they will make it. However, a lot of these people are just unambitious to the point of uselessness, they don't care if they have money. That would be okay but with not caring if you have a decent income comes with not caring about a lot of other things. Again, not everyone who is poor is also poor in character, but enough are that it ruins it for those just trying to get ahead. All I'm saying is there IS a correlation.

Sorry, to derail an already derailed thread further.

[FSF]

AndyAMG,

I agree with most of what you say except that I would probably extend your characterization to all humans and not just the poor ones. Human beings in general just have low character. There's really no other way to look at it. When put in a situation to be self-serving, most human beings can't help but take the lower road. I've seen it WAY too often with most all of the people I've ever know, most of whom were clearly upper middle class or rich to varying degrees.

I think irrefutable proof of this lies in seeing how the vast majority of politicians are crooked (at least I'm convinced they are). And these aren't "poor" people that are getting elected. They're mostly very well off or even insanely rich. And yet they can't seem to help themselves. Many poor people may lack the decorum in their behavior and not possess any of the "class" that might perhaps superficially make them appear to have some redeeming quality. But in the end, the character essence of the rich and poor are no different IMO.

[westboundrambler]

Originally Posted by AndyAMG

Anyway, most poor people are not just poor monitarily but poor in character. I would say lack of character leads to lack of financial success.

This is the most ludicrous statement I've read on these boards. Just because your sister and brother in law are ****ty people, and yes that's all they are just two ****ty people, doesn't mean that the majority of people at their income level are poor in character. the fact that they are poor is completely irrelevant. You can't write off 50% of the U.S population (yes 50% of U.S citizens have a household income of UNDER 50,000 a year) as "poor in character" because you know 2 people that are disrespectful pieces of crap. 98% of the people I know have a household income of less than $50,000 a year and of that number I'd consider 80% of those people to be ambitious, creative, intelligent, hardworking people. This idiotic statement, drawn from your deep research of the lower class (2 people ), is either a sign of your lack of intelligence, or lack of humility. Perhaps it's both of those, but one thing is for sure, it's surely a sign of your lack of character.

[Squidlo]

I blame light rail and meth. The approach to Gresham is seedy. Rockwood gets called "crackwood" quite a bit. I was in Portland, Gresham and Fairview week of 4/8. Parts of Gresham/Fairview are just wonderful. Some parts not so great. The deciding factor seems to be money. Houses that I would consider living in are 300k+.

Sorry to say I agree with the idea that some folks of poor character seem to have issues achieving financial success(excluding used car salesmen, ambulance chasers and some politicians).

60K gross for a couple, well off? That's just scraping by if you own a home and are actually saving for retirement.

I grew up dirt poor. Filth and squalor do not go hand in hand with poverty. It does seem to go with drug and alcohol abuse. Got money for smokes, beer and weed? You got money for a broom and a mop.

[Steve Pickering]

Originally Posted by FSF

AndyAMG,

I agree with most of what you say except that I would probably extend your characterization to all humans and not just the poor ones. Human beings in general just have low character. There's really no other way to look at it. When put in a situation to be self-serving, most human beings can't help but take the lower road. I've seen it WAY too often with most all of the people I've ever know, most of whom were clearly upper middle class or rich to varying degrees.

I think irrefutable proof of this lies in seeing how the vast majority of politicians are crooked (at least I'm convinced they are). And these aren't "poor" people that are getting elected. They're mostly very well off or even insanely rich. And yet they can't seem to help themselves. Many poor people may lack the decorum in their behavior and not possess any of the "class" that might perhaps superficially make them appear to have some redeeming quality. But in the end, the character essence of the rich and poor are no different IMO.

I find that offensive. Either I am in the minority or there is no truth to your statement.