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Portland does not spend 10,000 per student. And the problems mainly stemmed from less children in the district. So they closed schools to reflect the actual amount of children in the district, in order to save money.
And if the "idiots" would get out of their cars and TAKE the public transport available to them, there wouldn't be so much traffic. However, traffic here is nothing compared to other places anyway.
And what we "need" is subjective. For the many people who commute by bike, bike lanes ARE needed. And it's not like so much money is spent creating bike lanes in PORTLAND (i.e. most of the traffic is from people outside of Portland anyway) that it's preventing a new freeway from being built.
I have lived in Portland for 11 years and am in the process of leaving. I have had some nice experiences as far as enjoying nature, and some cultural events and met nice friends who since have left Portland for a better place to be. In the last 4 years I have interviewed transplants and the following are comments that have been consistant with people who have moved here. I am from the Midwest and as far as Portland people, I have never met such materialist, self-centered, irresponsible people who have no regard or respect for others. Many are a "phoney nice", not geniune. There is little to no community or comradship. Any geniune people I met were transplants from the Midwest, East Coast or another country. They will only "accept" transplants if you think, believe or act as they do. When I moved to Portland I was even told this by the native Oregonians. The positive things of Portland is the beautiful nature, although it rains it keeps everything green, and mild winters. There are jobs in Portland, not high paying, but will keep you afloat. But as for the people...you will fit in Portland only if you are an extreme liberalist, gay, movated by only your needs, a hippy, an extreme bicyclist or a distorted artist. I am not saying if these lifestyles are good or bad ... only that you need to determine which lifestyle is yours.
Portland does not spend 10,000 per student. And the problems mainly stemmed from less children in the district. So they closed schools to reflect the actual amount of children in the district, in order to save money.
Yes, they do spend that much. Lars Larson has proven it over and over again. You have to include the "All Funds Budget" and when you do it's right at $10,000 per student, per year.
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And if the "idiots" would get out of their cars and TAKE the public transport available to them, there wouldn't be so much traffic. However, traffic here is nothing compared to other places anyway.
For many people, myself included, the public transit options don't go anywhere I need. Is the MAX going to get me to my job in Woodburn? I don't think so. Is MAX going to get me out to the coast? Nope! For me and countless others MAX and Tri-Met are completely useless.
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And what we "need" is subjective. For the many people who commute by bike, bike lanes ARE needed. And it's not like so much money is spent creating bike lanes in PORTLAND (i.e. most of the traffic is from people outside of Portland anyway) that it's preventing a new freeway from being built.
Maybe it's time to start licensing bike riders, that way they can pay for their own bike paths. Why should motorists that choose to drive be forced to subsidize bike paths that they don't use? Start charging bikes a license fee instead of mooching off of the people that pay taxes and fees to drive. If nobody drove cars and paid license fees, registration fees and fuel taxes how would your precious bike paths get paid for?
Many are a "phoney nice", not geniune. There is little to no community or comradship.
I have to agree with that...there are certainly very nice people here, but overall the "Portland nice" mentality that so charms visitors (cars stopping to let pedestrians cross, strangers holding doors open, etc.) doesn't stretch far beyond the superficial.
One hears a lot about "diversity" and "community" in Portland, precisely because there's so little of either...the same way that an economically depressed city will always trumpet how it's "on the move" or whatever.
I live in a fairly large apartment building; I don't know my longtime neighbors on either side. Not even their names. While I cherish my privacy, I also don't enjoy living in a place where you can say "hello" to someone as you pass in the hall and they look away.
It's similar in Seattle, where it's called the "Seattle freeze":
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It's the flip side of Seattle Nice. Welcome to Seattle . . . Now please go away.
Seattle's long been described in contradictory terms. The weather: Is it mild or dreary or mildly dreary? The politics: Progressive yet torpid. Progressing toward torpor? The attitude: Tolerant — of all like-minded people.
But the dichotomy most fundamental to our collective civic character is this: Polite but distant. Have a nice day. Somewhere else.
We're the ideal seatmate on an airplane. We slide in, exchange a smile and a succinct pleasantry, then leave you be for the rest of the flight. Alaska Airlines should capitalize on this with ads that promise: "Uninterrupted service from Seattle — and we mean it."
Seattle is like that popular girl in high school. The one who gets your vote for homecoming queen because she always smiles and says hello. But she doesn't know your name and doesn't care to. She doesn't want to be your friend. She's just being nice.
Substitute "Portland" in there and you've got it.
And native Portlanders will tell you: a) it doesn't exist; and b) so what if it does; it keeps people from moving here.
you will fit in Portland only if you are an extreme liberalist, gay, movated by only your needs, a hippy, an extreme bicyclist or a distorted artist. I am not saying if these lifestyles are good or bad ... only that you need to determine which lifestyle is yours.
I'm not any of those things and I feel pretty good here.
Yes, they do spend that much. Lars Larson has proven it over and over again. You have to include the "All Funds Budget" and when you do it's right at $10,000 per student, per year.
Lars Larson. I should have figured! And his stats are always right and never biased or reactionary, huh? You forgot to mention that he also says we shouldn't have any kind of ESL programs in school. He probably feels special ed should be thrown out too.
As for the rest...well, it doesn't surprise me that you feel that way. It's the whole, if it doesn't work for me, then I shouldn't have to pay for it mentality that tends to follow Lars, but ONLY if it's a "liberal" policy. Wouldn't that be nice if we could all choose to decline to pay for things? I myself would like to take my taxes and put them in many different places then they're currently going but I don't have that option do I? I also find it interesting that because your commute doesn't allow you to take MAX we shouldn't spend any money on it. What about the people who would like to take MAX?
Complaining about taxes going for bike lanes is a drop in the bucket compared to the taxes going to Iraq. Yet people get stuck on bike lanes. I guess it's just easier. And bike lanes are so incredibly expensive. If we didn't have them we could have built many new freeways, right? LOL.
Last edited by oldtintype; 12-30-2007 at 10:26 PM..
Maybe it's time to start licensing bike riders, that way they can pay for their own bike paths. Why should motorists that choose to drive be forced to subsidize bike paths that they don't use? Start charging bikes a license fee instead of mooching off of the people that pay taxes and fees to drive. If nobody drove cars and paid license fees, registration fees and fuel taxes how would your precious bike paths get paid for?
this bit is almost laughable considering the automobile is probably the most subsidized, destructive social item (for lack of a better word) in human history. In too many ways to count. Just cause society considers endless road construction and automobile ownership "normal" does not mean it's healthy for anyone or thing. Portland is one of the few major American cities to acknowledge this and try and to do something about it. For better or worse.
Aside from that, the facts in this post are wrong, but it's already been said, that money for bikes is minuscule compared to road spending. And even still bike paths don't really go anywhere. I'm not anti-bike path, they have limited use but bikes are most useful on the street, where they are marginalized by dangerous automobiles. Bike lanes help a bit, and yea it's real expensive to paint a white stripe and a bike logo. That's gotta be worth, 10 freeways.
Busch, you are from the midwest? In a small city? You think PDX traffic is a headache? You wouldn't survive a week in NYC, Boston, DC, SF, Seattle, Miami, etc. etc. Portland is a cake walk compared to those places. As for sunbelt cities like Atlanta, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, etc. where highway building is practically a religion, they are still gridlocked, and unlike some of the other cities mentioned (including pdx), there is practically no public transit and zero bike infrastructure to speak of. Not that you could realistically bike anywhere considering how sprawled out those places are. Bottom line, there is no escaping traffic in the city. You don't like it fine, but don't blame the urban environment, especially one that tries to give you other options. I mean, christ, I can understand not liking Portland as a city. It's not for everyone. But making the traffic your biggest issue? That's just beyond lame. It really says a lot about someone's deeper values...
Sorry for the rant but people who act like endless road construction is an entitlement drive me mad. I suppose you also think the govt. should subsidize 1.50$ a gallon for gas? You think this auto-centric lifestyle is cheap? Someone's gotta pay for it, and if not you there is all that "stuff" going on half a world away. But that's not connected to our lives now is it? Unless you happen to know someone in the military. In which case they are a "freedom fighter" who can do no wrong...
Lars Larson. I should have figured! And his stats are always right and never biased or reactionary, huh? You forgot to mention that he also says we shouldn't have any kind of ESL programs in school. He probably feels special ed should be thrown out too.
So state funding numbers that are open to the public are now somehow biased because you don't like Lars Larson? Lars didn't make up the numbers, he got them from the city and state. The fact remains that when you add it all up and divide by the number of students it's $10,000 per student, per year. Iowa's school rank far higher than oregon's yet Iowa only spends about $6500 per student, per year. I agree with Lars that the ESL programs should be cut back as far as possible. It's been shown in many studies that English immersion works far better than ESL programs. The schools love them though because they can get more money per student in their school for each student enrolled in an ESL program. It's not about getting the kids to learn English in the most effective way, English immersion, it's about how much money they can get their hands on by shoving all the students they can into ESL classes.
I agree with mer1. I have mentioned both positive and negative things about my experiences in Portland but it all goes back to a very high cost of living that does not keep pace with the low salaries. I have done a lot of comparing with salaries paid for like jobs in other cities and Portland is way below them. So many overqualified people are toiling at the few jobs available it's unbelievable. And try being over the age of 40 and looking for a job. It is not pretty.
I have lived here for many years and have seen a lot of changes. Basically if you are young, professional (doctor, accountant etc) or move here with money you may do well. If you are an average Joe, working at a clerical or retail job it will be difficult to make ends meet.
Although I have met some very nice people here I have to agree that there is a superficiality and self-centeredness of the majority. And the wonderful group of friends I have connected with over the years have pretty much all moved away when they could no longer afford to live here.
I too am from Midwest and am looking forward to moving back when I am able. I just think that it is easier to earn a living and be able to afford the basics; rent, food, clothing etc back there. When people cannot afford to live in a place on a moderate salary, that place has some serious problems.
Okay, this thread is totally going off topic and will likely be closed, but I need to add my two cents.
Regarding English Immersion vs. ESL, English Immersion will only work if the student taking it has a strong understanding of their native language. By understanding, I mean the language in an academic sense, not simply a conversational one. Lets say you take a child who was formally educated in their home country. They learned all the grammar rules, parts of speech, etc... Now, this student comes to the U.S. and is enrolled in an English Immersion program...they can and usually are successful. It is simply a matter of learning the vocabulary and rules and nuances of the new language.
On the other hand there are many students who enter American schools with no formal education in there native language. Their Spanish, Russian, Chinese, etc... is conversational, but is not even following the proper rules of grammar and syntax in the native tongue. If you take this child and start trying to teach him subject/predicate relationships, there/their/they're, tense form, preterit, etc...they will not be successful. ESL is really designed to help the student with limited language skills in their native language transition to English. Most students enrolled in ESL will evetually test out it once they've learned the grammar rules, vocab, and everything needed to achieve academically.
Oh, and as for a negative about Portland...(I'm adding this with the hope of keeping this thread open). I hate the facts that there are four way intersections in residential areas and there are no stop signs to be found. The Alameda neighborhood is full of such areas and it really poses a safety risk. I always slow down, but too often people just tear down the street with no concern regarding pedestrians or other cars. Would it kill the City of Portland to put up some stop signs. Oh, and why not place a large white line on the steet by the stop sign to help alert drivers they are there. With all of the trees and rain, too often stop signs are hard to see...the line in the street would really help drivers.
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Why should motorists that choose to drive be forced to subsidize bike paths that they don't use? Start charging bikes a license fee instead of mooching off of the people that pay taxes and fees to drive. If nobody drove cars and paid license fees, registration fees and fuel taxes how would your precious bike paths get paid for?
Lars didn't make up the numbers, he got them from the city and state. The fact remains that when you add it all up and divide by the number of students it's $10,000 per student, per year. Iowa's school rank far higher than oregon's yet Iowa only spends about $6500 per student, per year. I agree with Lars that the ESL programs should be cut back as far as possible. It's been shown in many studies that English immersion works far better than ESL programs. The schools love them though because they can get more money per student in their school for each student enrolled in an ESL program. It's not about getting the kids to learn English in the most effective way, English immersion, it's about how much money they can get their hands on by shoving all the students they can into ESL classes.
