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Greetings folks, long time Portland fan but first time parent. I confess this whole calculus is just making my head hurt.
The number of different web pages and maps and long walls of text one has to read to try and figure this out is just killing me. I'm an impatient geek, and I go nuts when information isn't presented in a transparent and immediately intuitive way. I need a "subway map" version of all these variables! Since I grew up far away in a generic sprawly suburban place where public schools are all just crap with no options worth caring about, I've never had any experience with districts and lotteries and (blah blah blah) because nobody really could, and nobody cared to, go to any school other than the one near your house.
While doing some big sky long term planning, my wife and I have been trying to figure out in which parts of Portland a public school student can do both Spanish dual language immersion and have access to an IB curriculum (come high school). Now obviously, as we are new parents, whatever the status quo is today will likely change a bit in the next dozen or so years...but since the present day is all one can make these kinds of plans based on, I'm trying to wrap my head around how these things work now.
We're primarily interested in the west side of the river, for a host of other lifestyle reasons, so Lincoln seems an intuitive choice as far as high schools go. When looking at the district map and reading up on immersion, it seems like in order to maintain immersion from grade school you have to start out at Ainsworth, then through Sylvan (unclear if it's both East and West or what) and finally on to Lincoln. But the neighborhood boundaries for Ainsworth are so weird, like, okay, lemme get this straight, a ton of people must want this combo for their kids but the only way to do it for sure is to live in the middle of nowhere on top of a hill with no streetcar or MAX access?
That just seems crazy to me, and I'm guessing I'm missing something obvious that folks who grow up experiencing PPS just know from experience?
If you don't live inside a school's boundary, you have to get lucky in a lottery to send a kid there right? If you have multiple kids, the chances of something getting messed up seem even worse (even if your "odds" are better that's still two lotteries right?). What's more, if your home is outside the boundary do you have to drive your kids to school every day for all those years? That seems nuts too.
What about all the families in Goose Hollow, the Alphabet District, all over downtown, Lair Hill, or even someplace like the South Waterfront? Do they all just hope to "win" a lottery or else go for private schools? Do private schools even offer immersion and IB stuff? Don't put too much effort into answering that, we're NOT interested in private schools beyond kindergarten.
Here are some links to some of the sources I've been trying to answer my questions from:
TLDR: I'm confused that if you want to live close to MAX and the streetcar and have a downtown "city" life in Portland, it seems like your kids can't have access to the best public school programs unless you get lucky in a lottery...and depending on luck seems like a crazy way to choose where to buy a family home. Thank you loads in advance to anyone who can help me digest all this confusing information.
Almost every slot in Portland Public School's immersion programs (as well as most other magnet programs) is filled by a district-wide lottery.
It is VERY difficult to get into one of Portland Public School's Spanish Immersion programs. Spanish is a very popular choice. Your child will be competing with literally hundreds of others in a lottery for a handful of slots. You will be responsible for arranging for your student's transportation to and from school for these programs, so I would highly recommend Ainsworth, as it believe it is the only immersion programs west of the river: Ainsworth School - Portland Public Schools
Your best chance is to get your child in for their kindergarten year. After kindergarten, even if space opens up in the school program, your student must test in with a certain level of language competency before s/he can be considered for the lottery. If your goal is to have your student attend during the 2014-15 school year, the mandatory meeting that you MUST attend to enter the lottery are happening right now. I believe the latest one is on 3/17.
All in all, getting a student into a language immersion program is a rigorous and frustrating process in PPS. We were already veterans of the lottery enrollment process from our oldest child, so when our daughter was entering kindergarten and we knew we wanted her in an immersion program, we had a process. First, we took a careful look at the odds from the previous lottery cycle http://www.pps.k12.or.us/files/enrol..._-_English.pdf (and tried to factor in the fact that siblings are automatically enrolled in the programs, so there are significantly FEWER slots available than are listed ), then we went to a BUNCH of mandatory presentations to see what was available for us, and ultimately we tried to work the system in our favor by selecting our first choice and also applying to charter schools that are part of the Portland Public school District but that each hold distinct lotteries.
Oh! And btw, you get to make a first, second, and third choice, but know ahead of time that, when it comes to the immersion programs, the only one that matters is the FIRST choice that you pick. There is more demand for these programs than there are spaces, so even most of those who choose a specific immersion school as their first choice are turned away. Look at the odds from previous years! Choose wisely
So, here's the thing. The lottery for the "better schools" is not really in effect anymore since all of those schools are becoming over crowded with actual neighborhood children who have guaranteed slots. I know the charter schools have a lottery but if you want to make sure your child is in a particular school then buy literally across the street from the school. School boundaries are in flux right now and if you have a baby, it's hard to buy right now. Literally, Beverly Cleary is facing serious boundary issues. Google it. So much info out there. The schools you are looking at also are foundation schools so you may want to google that too. You are expected to contribute financially to the foundation to keep all of the "extras" because they are not paid for by the district but by the foundation. You will be fundraising all year and volunteering and still wondering how to keep music and art the next year. It is so much fun!
Almost every slot in Portland Public School's immersion programs (as well as most other magnet programs) are filled by a district-wide lottery.
I apologize if this sounds profoundly naive, but when it comes to this stuff I know absolutely nothing because I grew up someplace nobody would ever bother to try to "transfer" to a school they weren't "supposed" to go to...unless their parents were school admins or teachers anyway.
Do you mean to tell me that no matter what, everyone, even if you live inside the school's boundaries, has to apply for a random chance to be in these programs? So even if you compromise to live someplace you don't want to be, you still might just magically lose out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristinePDX
It is VERY difficult to get into one of Portland Public School's Spanish Immersion programs. Spanish is a very popular choice. Your child will be competing with literally hundreds of others in a lottery for a handful of slots. You will be responsible for arranging for your student's transportation to and from school for these programs, so I would highly recommend Ainsworth, as it believe it is the only immersion programs west of the river: Ainsworth School - Portland Public Schools
When you say "competing" what exactly do you mean?
Thank you for this feedback, it's extremely valuable. I have no idea how these things work.
So, here's the thing. The lottery for the "better schools" is not really in effect anymore since all of those schools are becoming over crowded with actual neighborhood children who have guaranteed slots.
Can you explain what a "guaranteed slot" is exactly? Does that mean, for example, if you lived inside the Ainsworth boundary (which implies both the Sylvan and Lincoln boundaries) that both/all of your kids could count on being able to take Spanish immersion classes from K-12?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeemama
I know the charter schools have a lottery but if you want to make sure your child is in a particular school then buy literally across the street from the school. School boundaries are in flux right now and if you have a baby, it's hard to buy right now.
Hard? It seems impossible? Like, I want to make responsible decisions but there seems to be basically no data, squishy data, or conflicting data. It's driving me crazy...and everything I read is filled with buzzwords and references to other initiatives and things in flux that I don't know anything about. It's almost purposefully hard to digest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeemama
Literally, Beverly Cleary is facing serious boundary issues. Google it. So much info out there. The schools you are looking at also are foundation schools so you may want to google that too. You are expected to contribute financially to the foundation to keep all of the "extras" because they are not paid for by the district but by the foundation. You will be fundraising all year and volunteering and still wondering how to keep music and art the next year. It is so much fun!
I've never heard the term "foundation" so thanks for that, I'll look it up...but my presumption given the state of public schooling pretty much everywhere these days is that no matter where we are I will need to take on some fundraising and volunteering and related responsibilities. I'm 100% up for that, I strongly believe in backing public schools even if lazy/cheap/elitist people and their politicians don't. I've planned and saved and waited for years just to be able to be a stay-at-home parent who focuses on whatever the kids need.
What I'm not prepared for is taking huge dice rolling chances with things, I'd rather be as planned out as possible. So thanks for any advice and information you can share, and any other plain English explanations of all this stuff you can point me at.
Ainsworth for example has slots for the immersion program that are set aside for English speakers in the boundary and transfer English speakers outside of the boundary, and then Spanish speakers in/out, etc. You have a better chance of getting in if you're in the boundary as for example if there are 24 spots for people IN the boundary there tends to be lets say 50 applicants for those spots, but if you're outside the boundary there will be 150 applicants for the 24 spots. There is no "for sure" for Ainsworth no matter where you live.
If you go to the PPS enrollment and transfer page it will show you the lottery results for the last few years as well as spots for this year and you can get an idea of the demand.
Right now the district is aware that there is a huge demand for languages and more immersion programs will occur in the coming years. The problem is finding teachers for the programs, especially at higher grade levels. Some positions require bilingual candidates but they also require candidates with endorsements in various subjects which make it hard to find people. Beach as an example started out the year without enough staff for the immersion program (middle school level).
This year PPS added Vietnamese and an additional Chinese location and additional Spanish locations are planned for the coming years. With the entire district boundaries being redrawn next year I really wouldn't plan too hard yet as things will be in flux. There are a lot of changes coming and it's hard to predict exactly what they'll be.
Last edited by oldtintype; 02-24-2014 at 08:28 PM..
Do you mean to tell me that no matter what, everyone, even if you live inside the school's boundaries, has to apply for a random chance to be in these programs? So even if you compromise to live someplace you don't want to be, you still might just magically lose out?
When you say "competing" what exactly do you mean?
You do not need to apply for a random chance to attend your neighborhood school. You are guaranteed a spot if you live in that school's cachement area.
However, if you are interesting in an IMMERSION or MAGNET program (i.e. Spanish, the Creative Science School, Da Vinci Arts, Winterhaven Science and Technology, etc, etc) then YES, you need to get in through the lottery system. IF your neighborhood school offers an immersion program and regular program, you do not need to lottery into the regular program (Woodstock elementary, for example) but you would have to be selected by the lottery process to get into the immersion program (Woodstock Mandarin Chinese Immersion program).
In some ways this could be very liberating; move to an area that has a neighborhood school that you wouldn't mind your kids attending. There are a lot of good neighborhood programs. You can live anywhere that you're hankering to in town and probably still have the same equal (and somewhat slim) chance that everyone else has to get into a special program. Then, do your research and select the school for which you would like to enter the lottery.
The exception to this is that some of the Spanish Immersion programs have separate lotteries for native Spanish speakers and native English speakers, as well as separate lotteries for neighborhood kids who want to enter the immersion program and non-neighborhood kids. It's pretty confusing -- they all seem to operate differently. Check closely with the schools you are considering to see how their lottery process works. Thus, there might be some advantage to living near the school in terms of lottery logic, but like I said, it can vary from school to school. If you do your homework and find out that living near a schools allows you to enter a lottery with a smaller pool of applicants, you may have a better chance of getting in. Sadly, though, this is in no way guaranteed.
When I say competing, I mean that there are only so many slots in all of the immersion programs. There are MANY MANY more applicants for these programs than they can accept. In one of the Spanish Immersion schools that we visited for the "mandatory-if-you-want-to-apply" meeting last year, there were literally 150 families competing for 2 kindergarten spaces. Since the school system doesn't seem to be able to expand these programs to meet the needs of those who want to utilize them, it creates a lot of competition to get students into the slots that exist.
While it's not on the west side, El Puente in Milwaukie is great for Spanish immersion. My wife speaks spanish fluently, people think I do, but I do not, I'm getting there. We wanted to put our kids into El Puente and lobbied hard but in the end we moved to Milwaukie too late, our kids were too old, they had to be registered before kindergarten started. My wife does a bit of volunteer stuff in various places, church, various head starts, and had nothing but good things to say about El Puente's staff and children. My wife did some work when my kids were going to school in the PPS system in NoPo, she had nothing but bad things to say about PPS, that's why we moved.
If your kids aren't a minority or poor good luck getting them into anything special. At J.J. Astor we were flat out told that my wife should teach them Spanish and that kids with less opportunities should be get to go to TAG or immersion programs before "privileged" children. In Milwaukie we got none of that attitude, my son was easily accepted into CAFE. My daughters are able to do a bilingual after school program at El Puente but can not do the immersion, because they are too old. Luckily our church is completely bi-lingual and there are tons of young Hispanic families there.
Wish I could help with PPS, but we got back here too late in the game. PPS, is...well I will just hold judgement.
Good luck, I would go talk to someone in person, very few people understand whats going on in PPS. Yankeemama is the only person I have seen actually have a good grasp on the situation.
I have friends that for some reason still currently allow their children to be.... you know what never mind, theres too many PPS fans on here, that will defend PPS. I called a friend who lives in NE, and he said they said they tried but had no idea there would be a competency test, and their kids did not pass and were not allowed to join. We're not talking perro, hola, blanco, uno, dos, tres and were talking verb conjugation knowledge at 6! He was under the impression no previous knowledge was required.
So, I am sorry, Kyron, that I didn't really address your question about Spanish Immersion programs. Honestly, from what I have seen and heard, getting into an Immersion program in PPS right now, is like winning the lottery! My advice, since you are trying to match your hood to school, is to rent in a neighborhood that has a neighborhood school you desire. Apply to the Immersion program of your choice. Chances are your youngest child will not get into the immersion program BUT you can start your child in kinder in neighborhood school. Get a feel for the school, the parent community, neighborhood vibes and THEN make the decision to buy in the hood. If you are unhappy with the school then move to another neighborhood and try another school. I am being very serious and not kidding. You cannot know what will fit for you and your child reading test scores, listening to other parents, going to kinder round up. Sometimes a family does it's best within a community and a particular school but things don't work out. You just don't know. PPS changes boundaries. Believe me and everyone on this board. Please google and read all of the extensive "chat" on Oregonlive and blogs that discuss the subject of PPS boundary changes. I have had good luck with PPS in many ways. Our teachers have been spectacular and good. We have dealt with reasonable administration. I have met committed and dedicated parents... and some very strange birds. PPS is a big district. It is the largest school district in the PNW. We will probably stay in PPS until our kids graduate high school but we may move into another school feed along the way once high school is the issue. It is hard to say what school your baby will go to in kinder at this moment just because things are in flux. It is very true. We are not trying to frustrate you on this forum but it is what it is. I am learning that the same as a lot of families with young children.
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