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Old 02-28-2014, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
6,413 posts, read 12,097,495 times
Reputation: 5860

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Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
I know, i know Enrico. You think my proposal is a ridiculous idea. You mentioned that way back in post #7. Are you going to add anything useful to the conversation or just continue to be negative? From your previous comments in this thread, quote what you believe is the most useful comment you have made.
You show me where anyone has supported your silly idea. Why do you keep posting the same thing over and over and over and over?

Most useful? I'll go with my first. Just have trouble seeing why you seem unable to heed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoV View Post
Ridiculous idea. Store owners wouldn't like it. Drivers wouldn't like it. Pedestrians, maybe .... except for the cars speeding through downtown.

Nope. Doesn't benefit anyone.
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
54 posts, read 75,366 times
Reputation: 50
Eh, I think it's an interesting thought experiment. Portland is becoming known for city planning and transportation options. We're opening a new car-free bridge that is one of a kind in the nation. Why is anyone surprised (and apparently annoyed) that folks from out of town are taking notice and contemplating different ways to mix up transportation and urban design?
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,020,295 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
Now you are just wrong. Your assumptions are so strong that they are morphing into facts.
Well then set me straight, what is the point of changing traffic flow of downtown Portland?
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
6,413 posts, read 12,097,495 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristinePDX View Post
Eh, I think it's an interesting thought experiment. Portland is becoming known for city planning and transportation options. We're opening a new car-free bridge that is one of a kind in the nation. Why is anyone surprised (and apparently annoyed) that folks from out of town are taking notice and contemplating different ways to mix up transportation and urban design?
Well mostly, because of those things you mention, means that things are going pretty well, and that the city planners are fairly forward thinking. So what good does some anonymous yahoo on a message board, with no knowledge of the city, pushing (ad infinitum) one idea that everyone tries to tell them won't work, and isn't needed?

Having experience with commercial properties, I'd also love to hear where all these shopowners are that are going to want to rent spaces (at premium prices) on streets that have no visibility, or accessibility, to transportation. There's a reason why "high visibility" spaces rent for more than the "low visibility" ones. I can't imagine what kind of rents anyone could get for "no visibility."
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:38 PM
 
497 posts, read 550,599 times
Reputation: 704
Urbanlife78, I believe you feel strongly that I don’t understand the issues relating to downtown Portland, that you assumed I’ve never visited the city to the point where it became a fact in your own mind. That's why i made the statement "your assumptions are so strong that they are morphing into facts". I just don't like misinformation, and there has been a lot of it in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Actually I think the assumptions are being made on your part, you have said you don't live in Portland or haven't been there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
You should go visit Portland someday so you have an idea what you are talking about and a better understanding why closing streets to vehicles downtown is a non-issue and not something that is needed.
Wrong. I only stated that i don't live in Portland. I never indicated if I've visited the city or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoV View Post
But it is cute the way you (or whoever) put only about a quarter the number of cars in the second video.
Wrong. The proposed model has roughly 70% of the vehicles as the current model, not 25% as Enrico claimed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoV View Post
Fine, so you're admitting that there are half as many "cars" in the first as the second.
Wrong. I admitted there are 70% of the vehicles in the proposed model, not 50% as Enrico claimed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamellr View Post
Actually your major issue is that you're trying to put more cars in Portland when the goal is less cars.
Highly questionable. It’s hard to argue that the volume of vehicles would increase in the downtown core after banning vehicles on half the downtown streets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
If you double the speed of traffic, you move twice as much traffic in the same amount of time so capacity doubles [assuming that the light change would exactly double the average speed].
Wrong. A simple understanding of the “2 second rule” discredits this notion. To be fair, a lot of people do get tripped up with this concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoV View Post
Lol. What a stretch. Yeah, if there were half as many streets to drive on, no one would run lights. Riiiiight.
Misinformation. I never suggested that closing off half the streets would prevent drivers from running red lights.

Last edited by impala096; 02-28-2014 at 03:31 PM..
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,020,295 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
Urbanlife78, I believe you feel strongly that I don’t understand the issues relating to downtown Portland, that you assumed I’ve never visited the city to the point where it became a fact in your own mind. That's why i made the statement "your assumptions are so strong that they are morphing into facts". I just don't like misinformation, and there has been a lot of it in this thread.

Wrong. I only stated that i don't live in Portland. I never indicated if I've visited the city or not.


Well then, have you ever step foot in Portland? Ever been to downtown Portland? Or know anything at all about Portland?
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:15 PM
 
26,514 posts, read 36,385,293 times
Reputation: 29604
I like shopping. I hate carrying heavy bags. If something this silly were implemented in downtown Portland, I wouldn't shop there. Downtown areas are traditionally for commerce and retail. What's the point of making that environment unfriendly to consumers?
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:21 PM
 
497 posts, read 550,599 times
Reputation: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoV View Post
Ridiculous idea. Store owners wouldn't like it. Drivers wouldn't like it. Pedestrians, maybe .... except for the cars speeding through downtown.

Nope. Doesn't benefit anyone.
This was the most useful post you made in this thread Enrico? A few comments.

#1. It's laced with negativity. The first words uttered in this thread by you are "ridiculous idea".

#2. You suggest that cars would be speeding through downtown, which is somewhat misleading, since my remarks two posts earlier clearly explained how the city could up the cycle length to maintain a 12.5 mph speed limit (which is what the signals are currently timed at).

#3. You cut out the last line of the post, which was a baseless claim that has been disproved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoV View Post
But it is cute the way you (or whoever) put only about a quarter the number of cars in the second video.
Congratulations! Your most useful post was negative, misleading, and included a baseless claim that has been disproved.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,020,295 times
Reputation: 7875
You aren't going to get a positive review of this idea cause it is a bad idea, everyone but you agrees this is a bad idea.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Portland Metro
2,318 posts, read 4,605,596 times
Reputation: 2773
The bottom line is that, with the exception of a few streets at specific times of the day, auto traffic moves through downtown pretty efficiently.

If the argument is that it would prevent pedestrian-vehicle accidents, there are other locations in town that warrant much more attention than downtown.

Like Christine, I also think it's an interesting thought experiment. But it's pretty easily discounted when you apply it to the real world.
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